1 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF JUSTICE PROGRAMS REVIEW PANEL ON PRISON RAPE HEARINGS ON RAPE AND STAFF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT IN U.S. JAILS Wednesday, October 1, 2008 9:00 a.m. - 3:57 p.m. U.S. Department of Justice Office of Justice Programs Building 810 7th Street, N.W. Main Conference Room Third Floor Washington, D.C. Diversified Reporting Services, Inc. (202) 467-9200 2 PARTICIPANTS: Review Panel Members: Steve McFarland, Director, Task Force for Faith-based and Community Initiatives, U.S. Department of Justice Carroll Ann Ellis, Director, Fairfax (Va.) County Police Department Victim Services Gwendolyn Chunn, Executive Director (Ret'd.), Juvenile Justice Institute, North Carolina Central University * * * * * Amy Abeyta, Upgrades Classification Supervisor, BCMDC Peter Auh, Assistant County Attorney, Bernalillo County Charisse Cook, Deputy Chief, BCMDC Pat Cordova, Captain, BCMDC John Dantis, Deputy County Manager, Bernalillo County Jason Ellis, Correctional Officer, BCMDC Frank Maestas, Captain, BCMDC Henry Perea, Deputy Chief, BCMDC Ron Torres, Chief of Corrections, Administrator, BCMDC Kimberly Valerio, Health Services Professional, Correctional Medical Services Erin Worsham, BCMDC Training Coordinator, PREA Coordinator BCMDC 3 C O N T E N T S PAGE Introductory Remarks 4 Steve McFarland Panel 1 5 John Dantis Ron Torres Panel 2 60 Kimberly Valerio Erin Worsham Amy Abeyta Panel 3 145 Frank Maestas Pat Cordova Panel 4 255 Charisse Cook Henry Perea Jason Ellis 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Good morning. This is a 3 public hearing of the Review Panel on Prison Rape, 4 pursuant to the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003. 5 My name is Steve McFarland, and with me is a co-member 6 of the Panel, Ms. Carroll Ann Ellis, who is director of 7 the victim services division of Fairfax County, 8 Virginia, police department, one of the largest in the 9 country. 10 In addition, we will shortly be joined by the 11 third member of the Panel, Gwendolyn Chunn. And 12 Ms. Chunn is -- has a career in juvenile justice, 13 particularly in North Carolina. Past president of the 14 American Correctional Association. 15 But we are going to press ahead. And this 16 morning, let me just say, as I typically do, this is 17 not a criminal matter, this is not an inquisition or 18 blame-seeking exercise. The purpose of the Panel is to 19 identify the common characteristics of sexual predators 20 in jails, those common characteristics of those who are 21 vulnerable to sexual assault in jails, and the common 22 characteristics of those facilities which were surveyed 5 1 nationally by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, and, 2 according to those surveys, have the highest incidences 3 and the lowest incidences of sexual assault. 4 Today we are hearing from witnesses from 5 Bernalillo County Metropolitan Detention Center, 6 in -- just west of Albuquerque, New Mexico, which, 7 according to the survey, was one of those facilities 8 with the highest incidences of sexual victimization. 9 Ms. Ellis, do you have any opening comments? 10 MS. ELLIS: Good morning, and welcome. I look 11 forward to our discussions. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Our first panel will 13 be -- we are privileged to hear from Mr. Ron Torres, 14 who is chief of corrections, and the administrator for 15 the BCMDC. And we are also privileged to hear from 16 Mr. John Dantis, the deputy county manager from 17 Bernalillo County. Gentlemen, welcome. Would you 18 please raise your right hand? 19 Whereupon, 20 JOHN DANTIS and RON TORRES 21 were called as witnesses and, having been first 22 duly sworn, were examined and testified as follows: 6 1 EXAMINATION 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. The floor is 3 yours, Mr. Torres. 4 MR. TORRES: Mr. Chairman, members of the 5 Panel, I would defer to Mr. Dantis, since he is the 6 deputy county manager representing the county 7 commission and the county manager's office this 8 morning. 9 MR. DANTIS: Well, thank you very much for 10 having us here this morning. Regrettably, Mr. 11 Chairman, and Ms. Ellis, the chairman of our county 12 commission was not able to make it here. A very, very 13 good friend and colleague passed away, who he served 14 with in the city council for 20-plus years, so he was 15 not able to be here. 16 I also send regards from our county manager, 17 Thaddeus Lucero. He is also out of state, dealing with 18 other issues. So, I am here, and I am very happy and 19 very proud to be here, representing Bernalillo County. 20 I would like to start out, I guess, by saying 21 I am probably the happiest guy around when the 22 transition of the jail went from the City of 7 1 Albuquerque to the County of Bernalillo. By New Mexico 2 law, the counties in New Mexico are charged with 3 operating jails. However, through a joint powers 4 agreement that was enacted probably 30, 40 years ago, 5 the City of Albuquerque were the operators of the jail 6 for many, many years. 7 So, in July -- today is the beginning, I 8 think, of the 27th month that Bernalillo County has now 9 been the official operator of the Metropolitan 10 Detention Center. The joint powers agreement went 11 away. Bernalillo County assumed responsibility for the 12 operation of the jail. And from there, I think we 13 begin to set a whole new direction, through our county 14 commission and our county manager, with the jail. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: The county took over 27 months 16 ago, Sir? 17 MR. DANTIS: Twenty-seven months ago, I 18 believe, today -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And so what date was that, do 20 you remember? 21 MR. DANTIS: July 1, 2006. 22 MS. ELLIS: Okay, thank you. 8 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Please proceed, Mr. Dantis. 2 MR. DANTIS: Thank you. A bit before that, 3 though, the county was also charged with the facility, 4 building a whole new facility. I was intimately 5 involved in the design of the facility, and helping 6 secure the revenues necessary to build it. 7 This new facility was built about 16 miles 8 from downtown Albuquerque. The old jail, the old BCDC 9 jail, is currently under an IGA with the federal 10 government, and is now serving the federal family, 11 Bureau of Prisons and others, through a contract that 12 we have, and then we have a private provider there, 13 operating that jail. 14 So, the county basically is operating the MDC. 15 The MDC was designed and built under a number of major 16 principles. First and foremost, it was designed to 17 ensure that it complied with the ACA standards. It was 18 designed as a direct supervision jail. 19 It was also designed in a way where we would 20 be able to maximize programming. As the members who 21 are here know, and through their tours across the 22 country, one of the major problems, I think, with not 9 1 only jails and prisons, is there is a very lack -- a 2 very insufficient amount of actual programming that 3 goes on within jails, and I'm talking about the broad 4 spectrum of programming. 5 Well, I am very, very proud to 6 announce -- and, by the way, the folks that are going 7 to be testifying here today, I have known them for 8 many, many years. This young man to my right was a 9 corrections officer when I first was introduced to the 10 jail, and now he is the chief of corrections. The 11 chief of security was a corrections officer, and she is 12 going to come forward, and she is now the deputy chief 13 of operations. And it goes on. 14 So, I am very, very proud of all the work, and 15 all the effort that they have done, because they have 16 also evolved, as the county has taken over the jail. 17 In the MDC, we now -- and, by the way, it's 18 absolutely incredible to find and work in an 19 environment where you're able to take risks, and do 20 things that, really, have never been done before. 21 One of the things that this jail has taken on, 22 for example, is the Department of Health is now in our 10 1 jail, and has a site in our jail. We have a charter 2 school in our jail, and we have a community campus, in 3 addition to having a charter school. We are the second 4 jail in the United States to have one. We take 5 inmates -- and we have 200 slots in our jail -- in the 6 community campus, which we have. They are even growing 7 beyond the 200 here. In another year or so, I think 8 we're going to have close to 500 students in our 9 community campus. 10 Beyond that, we have the religious education 11 programs. We have an alcohol addiction program, both 12 inside and outside the jail. We have a community 13 custody program, where over 500 inmates are now serving 14 time within the community. We are doing a lot of those 15 kinds of thing. 16 But the county hasn't stopped there. In our 17 department of substance abuse programs, we have now a 18 detox center not only in the jail, but outside of the 19 jail, where we offer 28-day recovery programs outside. 20 We have a 50-bed detox program. We are opening up here 21 on October 14th an 80-bed transitional housing for the 22 community. We have community case managers. 11 1 I was -- when Mr. McFarland visited 2 Albuquerque, I kind of insisted that we kind of go by 3 and kind of show him a little bit of what Bernalillo 4 County has been doing. 5 So, the jail has started to create an 6 environment -- has created an environment -- where, if 7 you are in the community and receiving services, 8 whether they be substance abuse services, mental health 9 services, educational services, public health services, 10 you're going to come into the jail and not deteriorate 11 any more. You're going to be either continuing with 12 those services, or we're going to start you. And if 13 you need your diploma, we're going to have a slot for 14 you in our school, so that when you transition out to 15 our community custody, you're going to continue your 16 education. 17 Mr. Chairman and members of the Panel, you 18 know, I have been in this business -- Ms. Chunn -- for 19 many, many years. And, you know, I think jails have 20 their place, and we need them. They are great 21 warehouses. 22 But, in my personal opinion, given the manner 12 1 in which our criminal justice system operates -- it's 2 very slow, and there are other problems -- we need to 3 educate people, we need to get them off drugs, and we 4 need to help them find jobs. And those are the things 5 that are going to help solve the problem, and not just 6 deal with the symptoms of the problem. 7 And the gentleman sitting to my right, and the 8 folks that are going to be coming up here, are part of 9 the solution to the overall problem. They are making a 10 dent, not only in the jail by providing excellent 11 direct supervision, and those kinds of things, but also 12 taking the work that they're doing into the community. 13 We are advancing legislation to give -- and I 14 think you will all know this, too -- in many areas of 15 the country, our state in particular, our county 16 commissions have 100 percent of the responsibility of 17 funding jails, but zero authority to manage the jails 18 in a way that they need to manage them. 19 So, things like giving them authority when the 20 population exceeds a certain number, or the safety of 21 the staff and inmates are such that it is really 22 untenable, that they can do things like slow down the 13 1 booking of non-violent misdemeanors, or doing other 2 things, like classify into our community custody 3 program. So we're looking to give them authority. 4 Our jail is overused a bit. Not a bit; it is 5 overused with sentenced felons, and things of 6 those -- you know, things like that. So we are wanting 7 to give our commission, who has the responsibility of a 8 $56 million business, operating and funding a $56 9 million business, to have some authority in managing 10 that business. 11 So, we are going beyond the walls of the jail. 12 We had the jail mirror a lot of what is happening 13 within the community. And the exciting things that 14 this chief of corrections and the staff have brought to 15 the jail, in terms of accountability -- I know Ms. 16 Chunn is probably very familiar with the TEAMS program 17 out of Rikers. 18 Well, this young man here created a model 19 program, which I am sure he will tell you about, to 20 help not only make sure that there is accountability 21 built into the system, but that we're working very hard 22 to make sure that we're dealing, again, with not just 14 1 the symptoms of the problem, but dealing with the 2 program through programs and other initiatives that 3 I've mentioned. 4 Mr. Chairman, you know, I will stand for any 5 questions. I will be here for most of the day. And I 6 also extend to Ms. Ellis and Ms. Chunn a very warm, 7 open invitation to come to Bernalillo County, and 8 probably see one of the best operating jails in the 9 United States, thanks to the staff that we have put 10 together here, and brought together, so that you can 11 meet them today. Thank you very much. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you, Mr. Dantis. And I 13 imagine it's no accident that this facility is located 14 on John Dantis Street, a testament to -- you have just 15 a little bit of pride in that facility. So that is 16 noted for the record. 17 MR. DANTIS: Thank you very much. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And I want to thank Mr. Torres 19 and Mr. Dantis for accommodating a very long and 20 detailed inspection of the facility. Thank you. Mr. 21 Torres? 22 MR. TORRES: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and 15 1 members of the Panel. I have prepared a written 2 statement, that I will read into the record. But I 3 wanted to preface that by saying that the vision that 4 Mr. Dantis outlined began when he came into the 5 facility in 1994, and has been carried on through the 6 -- even when we had the joint powers agreement with 7 the City of Albuquerque operating the facilities. 8 Many of those individuals are sitting behind 9 us, well over 150 years of corrections experience, 10 collectively, and have been a part of seeing that 11 vision from a global, unreachable goal at times, to 12 coming to fruition. And the good news is we were able 13 to be a big part of that. 14 Mr. Dantis and Bernalillo County provide 15 innovative leadership. We are cutting edge, we 16 believe. The risks that we take we only take because 17 we believe that the reward is so great that it has to 18 be accomplished. 19 So, in that regard, Mr. Dantis has provided 20 great leadership, and Bernalillo County has provided 21 all the resources that have been necessary to 22 accomplish the mission of the Bernalillo County 16 1 Detention Center. 2 In that regard, I would like to begin by 3 thanking the Panel for the opportunity to be present 4 today and discuss operational issues of the Bernalillo 5 County Metropolitan Detention Center, as they relate to 6 the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003. 7 Opening in December 2002, the Bernalillo 8 Metropolitan Detention Center is a state-of-the-art 9 American Correctional Association-accredited facility 10 that sits on a 155-acre parcel with approximately 12 11 acres under roof, and an operating budget of $59.8 12 million. We are also National Commission on 13 Correctional Health Care -- NCCHC -- accredited. 14 With this combination, the BCMDC -- acronym 15 for Bernalillo Metropolitan Detention Center -- is 16 among the top three percent of facilities nationwide to 17 attain accreditation by both accrediting agencies. We 18 are proud to point out also that we -- our 19 accreditation score was 98.3. We are very proud of 20 that. 21 Using a podular design that allows for 22 cost-efficient future expansion of up to 5,000 beds 17 1 when we constructed the facility, and through the 2 vision of Mr. Dantis, we felt it was critical to build 3 the infrastructure to support growth, rather than later 4 come back and have to build and complete a new jail. 5 So the infrastructure of the Bernalillo Metropolitan 6 Detention Center is set forth to expand to up to 5,000, 7 even though our current capacity is 2,236. 8 We operate four housing units with eight pods 9 in each, and one housing unit with four pods. The 10 four-pods housing unit is our newest addition, called 11 the health services unit. This unit is equipped to 12 provide specialized services, such as acute psychiatric 13 care, step-down psychiatric care, acute medical care, 14 and medical detoxification. 15 Specifically, the unit provides psychiatric 16 services for inmates that are mentally ill on a 24-hour 17 basis, which includes the evaluation of referred 18 inmates immediately after being booked, management and 19 operation of acute care detention levels for men and 20 women that are separate from the general population, 21 crisis intervention, and evaluation of other acute 22 services. 18 1 As the chief of corrections, it is my 2 responsibility to protect the public, and to provide a 3 safe and secure environment for staff and inmates, 4 which is also the beginning of our mission statement. 5 This part of the Bernalillo Metropolitan Detention 6 Center's mission statement is carried out under the 7 principles of direct supervision, and in accordance 8 with the American Correctional Association standards. 9 Bernalillo Metropolitan Detention Center's 10 architectural design facilitates the nine principles of 11 direct supervision, which focuses on direct supervision 12 versus the more passive remote surveillance. In a 13 direct supervision setting, the corrections officer 14 remains in the pod and direct contact with inmates at 15 all times. And that includes anywhere in the facility 16 where inmates may be housed, even temporarily. 17 As a team, we have accomplished many of our 18 goals -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Excuse me, Mr. Torres, could 20 you just move your microphone a little bit closer to 21 you? 22 Jennifer, is he going too fast, or is this all 19 1 right? 2 JENNIFER: Yes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Maybe a little bit slower. 4 MR. TORRES: Read a little bit slower? Okay. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And we have them verbatim, 6 your remarks, so if you want to abbreviate them, feel 7 free. 8 MR. TORRES: Okay, very good. As a team, we 9 have accomplished many of our goals since our 10 transition from city/county control to county control 11 solely. The leadership of our facility always strives 12 for excellence, which is demonstrated through a 13 recruitment of a highly skilled and trained staff. 14 And I must say that the ability to go out and 15 train and recruit was facilitated by the resources of 16 the largest pay package to -- within a 12-month period 17 that was approved by the Bernalillo County Commission 18 and really endorsed and advanced by the county 19 manager's office. 20 Prior to the transition, the Metropolitan 21 Detention Center experienced a transitional event that 22 was unprecedented in our history. 20 1 MR. MCFARLAND: The turnover rate? 2 MR. TORRES: The turnover rate was always 3 difficult in a corrections setting, because we weren't 4 the highest paid corrections facility in the state, and 5 many of the staff that were on board at the time chose 6 to exercise their city rights -- city employee rights 7 -- and moved into other city departments, thus leaving 8 us with a staff that was at approximately 50 percent, 9 at best. 10 Through the incredible hard work of 11 individuals that work in that facility, and the long, 12 tenuous hours, we were able to overcome an 13 advanced -- not just go through and maintain our 14 facilities, but in my mind, we were able to implement 15 many initiatives, and continue on and become what I 16 believe -- as I concur with Mr. Dantis -- one of the 17 best facilities in the United States. 18 The facility is further equipped with over 300 19 cameras that are recording on a 24-basis, digitally, 20 all activity that is currently in the housing units and 21 elsewhere. Video for these cameras are retained for a 22 five-month period. The video system allows for remote 21 1 visitation and arraignments, to minimize the need for 2 inmate movement, thus reducing the opportunity for an 3 inmate to be assaulted, and/or contraband in the 4 facility without detection. 5 BCMDC has a full-time staff of 547 positions, 6 of which 416 are security positions, and we are 7 currently enjoying a 9 percent vacancy rate. The 8 organization structure is divided into four units, 9 including operations, administration services, 10 security, and fiscal. 11 Additionally, I am proud to announce that 12 BCMDC has opened up, as Mr. Dantis pointed out, the 13 Gordon Bernell Charter School. We are one of two 14 schools of this kind in the country, and currently have 15 254 students enrolled in the high school. The school 16 will also be open to any adult student out in the 17 community wishing to earn credits towards a high school 18 diploma. The intent of the school is to fill the gap 19 in educational services that are currently available 20 for adult students at the BCMDC and in our community 21 custody program. 22 Although BCMDC considers security and safety 22 1 of staff and inmates as its primary mission, it is 2 equally important to provide programs and education 3 helping inmates cope with incarceration and reduced 4 recidivism once they are released into the community. 5 For fiscal year 2007, the recidivism rate was 28.3 6 percent, which we take as a challenge and an 7 opportunity, I believe, that the charter school, the 8 DWI education and treatment programs, and others, will 9 be -- will cut into that drastically. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: 28.3 percent was the county 11 recidivism rate? 12 MR. TORRES: Yes, it was. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And that is defined how? 14 MR. TORRES: Those that return to custody 15 within the past -- within a year of -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Within a year? 17 MR. TORRES: Yes, Sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And that's for 19 any -- and that would include technical violations? 20 It's return for any reason? 21 MR. TORRES: For any reason. And Mr. 22 McFarland, to make certain of that, I can get you that 23 1 information when we return, exactly how the -- our 2 analysts provided that data. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Some define it as within two 4 years, within three years, some -- 5 MR. TORRES: I believe the 28 is the one-year 6 mark. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: One year, okay. 8 MR. TORRES: Security and safety being 9 the -- MDC's top priority, the facility is staffed 24 10 hours per day with highly skilled and trained employees 11 responsible for supervising as many as up to 90 inmates 12 in some pods, as you were witness to. 13 Staff members are provided with 240 hours of 14 pre-service academy training, including three hours of 15 training dedicated to today's subject matter, which was 16 newly implemented. Additionally, one hour of refresher 17 training is provided annually during the 40-hour 18 in-service training, a pre-requirement. 19 The BCMDC officers are supported by a security 20 threat group gang unit that assists in identifying and 21 profiling street and prison gangs, in an effort to 22 reduce threats to staff and inmates. 24 1 MDC is also supported by a corrections 2 emergency response team -- also known as 3 CERT -- responsible for responding to individuals and 4 group disturbances, and are on call 24 hours per day. 5 The population -- as we provide these 6 services, we are strained. And the 800-pound gorilla 7 in the room is often our population in the facilities. 8 And, as Mr. Dantis has pointed out, and we always echo, 9 over-populated jails is, in and of itself, should be no 10 excuse for unconstitutional services and conditions of 11 confinement. 12 We believe that, regardless of what hand is 13 dealt to us, that we have a responsibility to be 14 accountable and transparent to the public, and to 15 provide safe environments to all the inmates that enter 16 our facilities. 17 Therefore, we strive to continue, regardless 18 of the circumstance, regardless of the population, to 19 provide the services at a high level. And I believe we 20 have done so. 21 And we have a data quality assurance system 22 that Mr. Dantis alluded to -- we call it ROADS, 25 1 reporting objective-appropriate data 2 systematically -- similar to the TEAMS. And each one 3 of our members in the audience, and every manager in 4 our facility is charged with keeping key performance 5 indicators that they -- that point the direction as to 6 what they should be working on, on a daily basis. 7 They are also required, as part of ROADS, to 8 report to the management team, and any other 9 stakeholder, albeit whether it's in the County of 10 Bernalillo or in the criminal justice system as a 11 whole, as to their operations and what their operations 12 are -- how their operations are performing, and how 13 they are servicing those that -- our stakeholders, both 14 in the community and in Bernalillo County and within 15 the facility. 16 So, we use ROADS for accountability, we use 17 ROADS for education. And we believe that, to manage 18 appropriately, it must be objective and it must 19 be -- and when we apply resources, we darn well better 20 take care of the public monies. Because I believe the 21 mission to protect the public, there should be a dollar 22 sign there, that include protecting the public's money. 26 1 As I talked about the population, we have gone 2 forward with many population initiatives, and I am just 3 going to continue reading. 4 As a population reduction initiative, the 5 BCMDC has expanded our community custody program to 6 well over 500. It's an intensive program that 7 qualifies low-level offenses to participate while 8 working in the community and being responsible 9 taxpayers and giving back to the community, giving us 10 an opportunity to mandate behavior, while we have 11 individuals in our custody, mandate good behavior, 12 rather than sending them to universities of crime. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Torres, can a sex offender 14 be eligible for the community corrections program? 15 MR. TORRES: No, Sir. Mr. Chairman, the New 16 Mexico state statute prohibits sex offenders from 17 being -- from participating in the program. 18 There is some wiggle room in that statute, and 19 some of our judges choose to exercise that wiggle room, 20 and have ordered us to place somebody on the community 21 custody program. And at times we have objected to 22 placement. Or, if we -- and we are always -- we have 27 1 such a good relationship with the courts and with the 2 judges, we are able to go before the judges, present 3 our case, and on occasion, we have to yield to the 4 court's wishes, and we provide the best services that 5 we can, with safe operation, GPS, and what not, in the 6 community. 7 Since moving from city operations to county 8 operation, the MDC has aggressively pursued innovative 9 methods to engage the criminal justice in order to 10 reduce the inmate population within our facility. MDC 11 currently funds pre-trial services in both the state, 12 district court, and the metropolitan court in the 13 amount of over $1.2 million. 14 Other population initiatives currently 15 undertaken by the department include funding additional 16 pre-trial staff to expedite the release process, 17 funding a special prosecutor and public defender to 18 operate probation violation courts daily instead of 19 monthly, for faster adjudication of violators. 20 Agreements have been struck with the 21 Department of Corrections to return probation and 22 parole violators back to prison, in lieu of being 28 1 housed at the jail and eliminating the temporary 2 housing, for inmates providing testimony in local court 3 cases in the state court to expedite the completion of 4 judgment and sentence orders, enabling the facility to 5 quickly process inmates out of the facility and to the 6 New Mexico State Department of Corrections. 7 Those are just some of a long list of 8 population initiatives that we have ongoing. As an 9 educational tool for the BCMDC, we currently offer a 10 variety of recreational, informational, religious, and 11 professional services and activities. Currently, the 12 MDC offers an average of 800 classes each month, with 13 an average attendance of 12,000 inmates. Many of those 14 are repeat inmates that go to different classes, but 15 those are the aggregate numbers, and we do have the 16 signature sheets to provide the Panel, if they were 17 ever interested in auditing that number. 18 Some of the programming offered are provided 19 by our Department of Public Health, such as AIDS 20 information classes. Department of Health is full-time 21 on site, administering clinics, education, testing, 22 prevention, intervention, counseling for sexually 29 1 transmitted and infectious diseases. Sorry if I went a 2 little too fast there. 3 Our DWI and ATP court order program 4 for -- court participant program for multiple DWI 5 offenders provides alcohol and addictions treatment, 6 both in treatment and, when they are transitioned into 7 the community, into our community custody program. We 8 continue that treatment with a continuum of care 9 through outpatient treatment, as well. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And you have about 712, or 11 thereabouts in that detox program? 12 MR. TORRES: There is approximately 400 in the 13 facility -- 300 in the facility, and another 300, 400 14 on community custody. So, yes, that is correct, that 15 number, approximately. 16 We have peanut butter and jelly family 17 services, which facilitates contact visitation with 18 inmates and their children. As a member of the blue 19 ribbon commission for the State of New Mexico, we 20 engaged in an activity to provide services for inmates 21 that were left behind of incarcerated parents. We 22 found that there was traumatic experiences to those 30 1 inmates that -- to the children that were left behind. 2 And, as a result, Bernalillo County was 3 granted -- provided a grant from the State of New 4 Mexico to provide what we call community 5 resource -- child advocate officers, I'm sorry -- and 6 they come into the facilities and visit with parents to 7 assure that the children that were left behind, 8 that -- they won't always provide that information to 9 law enforcement in the field, nor our booking 10 staff -- those children that may be left at school, 11 unavailable for pick-up, children that were left with 12 relatives, because there was fear that they may 13 be -- or, worse than that, left in very hostile 14 environments. 15 These child resource advocates come into the 16 facility and take care of those issues. And, on 17 occasion, through very strict guidelines, provide 18 contact visitation with the parent and the children 19 that they were separated from very soon after 20 incarceration. 21 We also have religious services and 22 programming. We have well over -- a database of over 31 1 500 community volunteers that come into our facilities. 2 We keep a database, and we have background checks on 3 every volunteer that comes into our facility. We have 4 staff that -- to go out and recruit volunteers in the 5 community. We have three -- two religious programming 6 pods that are dedicated to religious programming, and 7 others that go throughout the facility and provide that 8 type of programming. 9 We believe not only is programming supportive 10 of security, but we believe programming is security in 11 our facilities. 12 The MDC also provides discharge planning for 13 inmates through our social service coordinator, which 14 is one of the only in the country that -- we are one of 15 the only facilities in the country, a few, that 16 actually provide benefits managers. And their job is 17 to do nothing more than to make liaisons with Social 18 Security Administration and other agencies as such, to 19 ensure that we have smooth transition for not just the 20 mentally ill, but others in general population, to 21 re-establish their benefits upon hitting the door. 22 We believe that the better we lay a foundation 32 1 for transition from our facilities -- and, as Mr. 2 Dantis often points out, our job is, at minimum, to 3 maintain the status of an individual when they come 4 into our facility, and make every effort to improve 5 them, whether it's to detoxify, to provide treatment, 6 to provide mental health care, to provide medical care. 7 Never do -- our goal is to have not one individual 8 deteriorate while in our care. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Do those social service -- 10 MR. TORRES: Coordinators? 11 MR. MCFARLAND: -- staff, coordinators, do 12 they also assist inmates in getting their identity and 13 social security cards, driver's licenses? 14 MR. TORRES: Mr. Chairman, we have actually 15 gone out and have unofficial handshake deals with the 16 Department of Motor Vehicles and other entities to 17 accept our wristbands, our identification bands, as 18 identification. For instance, our transportation 19 division in the City of Albuquerque will allow inmates 20 to ride the bus, I believe, up to three times, just by 21 showing their wristband. 22 I know that the Social Security 33 1 Administration, through our MOU, will accept the 2 wristband as a positive identification, because they 3 understand, as we went out and extended to them what we 4 do when they come into the facility, to verify we have 5 that individual -- i.e. fingerprinting, APHIS, those 6 kind of things. 7 So, obviously, if we have -- if they have gone 8 through our system, and they have been in there for any 9 length of time, then we are fairly certain we have that 10 individual, now we have a picture ID, and it sure does 11 enable them to move forward and become productive 12 quickly in the community. 13 The MDC is committed to the Prison and (sic) 14 Rape Elimination Act by developing strategies focused 15 on detecting and preventing sexual assaults, providing 16 inmate education, staff education, creating policy to 17 address the Prison Rape Elimination Act, as well as 18 development of a Prison Rape Elimination Act committee, 19 which will -- we have already established, as -- and 20 our PREA coordinator will be the chairman of that 21 committee. We are going to consider it a unit within 22 our facility, and the unit manager will report to other 34 1 deputies, as if they were any other division in the 2 facility. 3 As a subset of that committee, we have taken 4 many of the recommendations of PREA, and we are going 5 to create a crisis intervention team, a response team, 6 that will report to the committee. 7 And in addition to that, the committee is 8 currently in the process of establishing key 9 performance indicators that they must submit to our 10 ROADS committee, and ultimately, approved by the chief 11 of corrections for -- to determine what will those key 12 performance indicators be. The objective data that we 13 will collect and analyze to make certain that, if we do 14 have issues, we have responded to them quickly and 15 adequately. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Chief Torres, when you say 17 that you have adopted some of the PREA standards, to 18 what are you referring? Are you talking about the 19 National Prison Rape Elimination Commission's proposed 20 standards that they released for jails in June, or are 21 you talking -- 22 MR. TORRES: No, Mr. Chairman. This is 35 1 talking in general to the training and education 2 recommendations that are put out by PREA, itself. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: I see, I see. 4 MR. TORRES: Such as the -- 5 MR. MCFARLAND: The National Institute of 6 Corrections? 7 MR. TORRES: The National Institute of 8 Corrections -- 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 10 MR. TORRES: -- and many of those suggestions, 11 we have taken them to heart, implemented them in 12 policy, and now are kicking them off. 13 However, we believe that we have, in our 14 facilities, in our standard of operations, that we run 15 a business. And everything that we do, we operate as a 16 business within our facilities. 17 So, with any new initiative, we aren't just 18 going to launch into this blindly, and just shoot from 19 the hip, if you will. These policies must follow 20 rigorous planning. They go through the committee, the 21 committees will approve them. The key performance 22 indicators will be approved. The data that will be 36 1 collected, the quality assurance, will all be approved. 2 And we will run a test and a pilot program for 3 these committees for probably three to six months. We 4 will temporarily halt, we will collect the data, we 5 will do objective reviews, and, if necessary, we will 6 go to the board and the county manager's office for the 7 resources to continue the program. 8 So that it's not an unfunded mandate on staff, 9 or a burden on the facility, but that we will have a 10 good operation in the end. And that is our operating 11 principle. 12 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Torres, when you referred to 13 the development of a crisis intervention team, or 14 plan -- 15 MR. TORRES: Yes, Ma'am? 16 MS. ELLIS: -- are we talking about a SART 17 team here, or are we talking about a separate team 18 developed to respond specifically to sexual assault 19 incidents? 20 MR. TORRES: Mr. Chairman, I believe that's a 21 separate team that would be -- that is 22 particularly -- that is responsible for that very 37 1 issue, responding to sexual assaults. 2 Now, hopefully, that team will find little 3 use, and eventually we will move to where we -- where 4 these assaults are far and few between, and maybe we 5 can move that into other areas of the facility, and 6 other response needs. 7 MS. ELLIS: Okay. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, and I am sure you will 9 find that, by virtue of having a team, you send a 10 message to your staff, and you send a message to your 11 inmates, and you won't have to use it as much. 12 MR. TORRES: I agree, Mr. Chairman. And I 13 believe that, as we go through -- one of the questions 14 that the Panel continually asked yesterday was, "Why do 15 you believe that your facility rated this high?" 16 I have a few answers to that question. But 17 one of those is exactly what you are alluding to. I 18 believe that an educational component, a training and 19 an orientation component for reporting, and feeling 20 free to report, just taking the virtual spotlight, 21 placing it on the issue, and saying, "Hey, we -- this 22 is something that we are very concerned about, it's 38 1 something that we are not taking lightly," and 2 emphasizing it amongst staff and the inmates, and I 3 think that that, in and of itself, will go a long way. 4 Inmate education, in regards to the PREA Act, 5 we are providing it in postings in our facilities, we 6 are -- currently, we are out to production on our 7 annual handbook. The handbook will reflect several 8 issues in regards to PREA, and reporting and education, 9 in terms of what is a sexual assault. 10 Many inmates don't realize, sometimes, what 11 exactly is happening. Many staff members 12 don't -- unfortunately, don't understand sometimes that 13 some comments can be -- not can be, are 14 actually -- inappropriate and should not have no place 15 in a corrections setting. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Torres, just a -- you 17 brought up handbook, and we've got lots of questions 18 about orientation and education of staff and inmates. 19 But, as I read the policy, you don't allow the 20 inmates to keep the handbook. They can see it when 21 they check in, they can check it out if -- from a 22 correction officer if they want to reread it, but they 39 1 don't have one to posses. Is that -- 2 MR. TORRES: Mr. Chairman, that has been 3 changed, as of last year. All inmates -- and what we 4 do, we do amendments to our -- rather than continually 5 change our policy manual, we keep our manual the same 6 each year, and do amendments to the policy. One of 7 those amendments is that inmates -- we will make every 8 attempt to have a handbook in every inmate's hands. 9 However, for those of us who have been in the 10 jail business and prison business for a very long time, 11 because we process nearly 40,000 inmates a year, there 12 are times when you begin to run out, and you're in the 13 edit process or you're in the printing process of the 14 new edition. So we have created a fallback policy, 15 that if we get to that point, and it does occur, that 16 we have a good sound policy that still enables inmates 17 access to the policies and their handbooks. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: But it's only as good as what 19 they know the policy to be. 20 MR. TORRES: Right, that's correct. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: You can have the greatest 22 system, but if they don't know that staff-on-inmate 40 1 misconduct is a crime, or they don't know how to file a 2 grievance, or how to get a form, or who they can talk 3 to, or what will happen if they are accused of falsely 4 reporting, they're going to just -- they're not going 5 to take the risk of being a snitch, or they're going to 6 assume the worst. Wouldn't you agree? 7 MR. TORRES: I absolutely agree with that, Mr. 8 Chairman. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 10 MR. TORRES: In fact -- 11 MR. MCFARLAND: When did you start giving 12 inmates a handbook to keep? 13 MR. TORRES: We are out to print right now. 14 The current process -- now, let me say this. This 15 started probably -- we ran out, I believe, as recent as 16 last month, am I correct, Frank? 17 And that is when the new policy -- and when 18 you visited the facility, that's why we had the 19 fallback policy. We don't want to give -- we don't 20 want to go out and print 10,000 books that we're going 21 to update and change within a month. So what we do is 22 we provide the handbook at the officer's station, and 41 1 postings throughout the pods that suggest if you want 2 to read the book, just go to the officer and ask for 3 the handbook, and then we can check it out. That's 4 only temporarily. 5 The standard requires that we provide it to 6 each inmate. Having visited with ACA -- we correspond 7 regularly -- this will suffice in the temporary, as 8 long as it is a temporary -- again, there are close 9 to -- we are getting ready to print over 10,000 10 handbooks, both English and Spanish. 11 And part of the additions, changes, was the 12 addition of the policies in the education piece of 13 PREA. So -- 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, a number of the inmates 15 that I spoke with at your facility said they had never 16 seen a handbook. So I am glad to hear that that policy 17 is changing. 18 MR. TORRES: Right. And it had been in the 19 past, Mr. Chairman. I don't know if we just happened 20 to not have the -- any of those were short-term 21 inmates, or what the case was, but I do know that we 22 have had, within the last three months, every -- up to 42 1 about a month ago to two months ago, every inmate was 2 given one at intake. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, thanks. 4 MR. TORRES: But we do have the fallback. In 5 addition to that, as you saw in our tour of the 6 facilities, we have an orientation video that is 7 currently on display every -- we run that continuously 8 in our booking, we run it twice a day in our living 9 units. It's quite -- it's very extensive and is very 10 informational, and any inmate, whether -- if they have 11 a handbook or not, could simply sit in front of a 12 television and get the information that is in the 13 handbook. We go -- it's a very extensive video, well 14 produced. 15 And we are now in the process of adding a 16 piece of PREA into that orientation. The script has 17 been written and, I believe, waiting for production 18 with the county's IT department. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, I'm confused, then. 20 MR. TORRES: PIO department, I'm sorry. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: If you're just drafting the 22 script now for the video, what is there about sexual 43 1 assault and how to report it and prevent it that's 2 already on the orientation video? 3 MR. TORRES: Mr. Chairman, members of the 4 Panel, the only thing that is in the -- unfortunately, 5 it's just about being assaulted, or just about 6 being -- it's just a general, "If you need medical 7 care, if you have grievances," those kind of processes. 8 We are going to, obviously, highlight sexual assaults, 9 and what to do in that case. 10 As you stated before, we recognize there is 11 training opportunities, growth opportunities. And if 12 you're not ready -- if you're not open to change, if 13 you're not open to growth, then you should pack up and 14 go home, because you have no business in public safety, 15 and you don't have no business being a public servant. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And will the PREA portion of 17 the video be bilingual? 18 MR. TORRES: I will defer that to my training 19 coordinator. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Well, we're 21 getting into the weeds here, so -- 22 MR. TORRES: Okay. 44 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So we will save that. But 2 we've got lots of questions -- 3 MR. TORRES: I believe the entire video is 4 bilingual, it's just when we do the -- when we go to 5 production, the entire video is -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And I can't resist -- 7 MR. TORRES: -- both English and Spanish. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: -- just suggesting that, in so 9 far as you've said that PREA will be emphasized -- and 10 I can understand why you don't want to be constantly 11 reprinting a big handbook -- but I suspect that not all 12 the inmates are going to pore over every page of the 13 handbook, anyway. 14 So, if you want to make sexual 15 assault -- especially given the survey results with 16 respect to your facility, and your obvious pride and 17 desire to improve -- I would suggest that maybe a very 18 simple tri-fold, single-sheet brochure, like the 19 Torrance County -- I think you were here -- they handed 20 out, you know, Kinko's can produce that, you know, for 21 a few hundred bucks, by the thousands. And they -- I'm 22 sure, in a $59 million budget, that wouldn't break it. 45 1 MR. TORRES: We could find it somewhere. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: So, just a suggestion. 3 MR. TORRES: Mr. Chairman, that's what we're 4 here for, to learn and take back -- 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 6 MR. TORRES: -- those comments. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Like this. And that one is in 8 Spanish, yes. 9 MR. TORRES: And I have probably one last 10 closing statement, however. It simply says that we are 11 committed to the -- implementing whatever suggestions 12 that we find appropriate and necessary to improve, to 13 become the facility we believe we are and can be, and 14 continue to grow. 15 We -- once again, we hold ourselves to a very 16 high standard, much higher than any others. We are 17 audited on a regular basis, whether it is NCCHC, ACA. 18 We have hired our own consultants to oversee 19 our medical and mental health contracts, doctors on 20 both sides. 21 We are -- again, we are in an agreement with 22 plaintiff, attorneys, and conditions of confinement, 46 1 and in agreements -- so we have struck agreements with 2 the intervenors, as well. And we have deliverables on 3 both sides of that, that we strive to -- and we have 4 had great success, and are in the crux of exiting those 5 agreements. 6 MR. DANTIS: Mr. Chairman and members of the 7 Panel, one of the things that I didn't mention is that 8 one of the other things that Bernalillo County 9 inherited was a lawsuit, was a class action lawsuit. 10 And it's in two components. One is for conditions of 11 confinement, and the other one is for plaintiff's 12 intervenors for the mentally ill. 13 So, for -- since 1994, the McClendon lawsuit 14 has been with us. I am proud to say, too, that a lot 15 of the work that the jail staff has done, and our 16 attorneys, have gotten us much closer to exiting that 17 lawsuit. As a matter of fact, the current agreement 18 basically says that we will hire three national 19 auditors: one for medical, which was Dr. Greifinger; 20 one for mental health, which was Dr. Metzner; and one 21 for conditions of confinement, and that is Manuel 22 Romero, who has worked for the Department of Justice 47 1 for many years. 2 Of the conditions of confinement requirements, 3 we are one checkmark away from exiting -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And what is that one 5 checkmark? 6 MR. DANTIS: That one checkmark is safety, and 7 safety, in terms of crowding. And therein lies what 8 the chief of corrections has kind of outlined. We have 9 been meeting every other Tuesday morning at 7:00 for 2 10 years on making sure that we have data that is 11 credible -- no more anecdotal data -- that we share 12 with the courts, with the police, with all the other 13 partners within the criminal justice system: DA, 14 public defender, et cetera. 15 We have now one of the best data systems 16 within the State of New Mexico, if not the best, so 17 that one checkmark, along with -- and I'm very happy to 18 say that -- our population is dropping, not increasing, 19 which had been the case for the last 10 years, we will 20 probably experience, hopefully, a budget -- a flat 21 budget this coming year. As a matter of fact, it's 22 projected to be flat, which again, was not the case. 48 1 Because of all of these initiatives, both in 2 the facility and outside the facility, we have been 3 able to make some marked improvements with regard to 4 population, so that we can get to that level. 5 The other areas, the medical auditor is done. 6 He has come, he has completed his work, and said our 7 medical facilities and operations are fine, excellent. 8 In addition to that, we are very close to 9 exiting the -- we have an audit coming up in December 10 with Dr. Metzner. And the last visit was a very 11 positive visit, so we are looking forward to doing 12 that. 13 So, what Bernalillo has done in probably 26 14 years, from my personal experience -- in 26 months, 15 excuse me -- is greater than the City of Albuquerque 16 was able to do in 10 years, and I am very proud of 17 that. 18 And, by way of explaining, Mr. Chairman and 19 members of the Panel, there have been tremendous eyes 20 that have been placed on this facility: ACA, NCCHC, 21 the plaintiffs' attorneys, the plaintiffs' 22 intervenors's attorneys, their legal staff, the 49 1 Department of Health, the medical folks, all of the 2 volunteers, the religious education. 3 As a matter of fact, one of the opportunities 4 Mr. McFarland had was visiting with some religious 5 educators that were coming into the facility. He asked 6 the question, "Have any inmates ever come to you, you 7 know, relative to any sexual misconduct, et cetera," 8 and they told him no. 9 And I think that that -- having that level of 10 transparency within the organization, I think, is 11 absolutely wonderful. 12 But as the chief said, and as we all know, we 13 must be better at what we do. We didn't create ROADS 14 not to be accountable. We didn't create the transition 15 from the city to the county not to be accountable. We 16 didn't look at making sure that our corrections 17 officers had the tools to do their job because we're 18 not accountable. 19 We're a very accountable organization. And 20 the staff and the staff training that we have put in 21 place, I think, is helping us get there. Can we do 22 better? Absolutely. Will we do better? Absolutely. 50 1 And I am pledging that. 2 The administration of the County of Bernalillo 3 is strongly behind every opportunity, in addition to 4 PREA, to having one of the best operating facilities in 5 the United States, because it goes beyond the jail. It 6 goes into the community and back into the jail, if we 7 need to do those things. 8 So, Mr. Chairman, we are looking forward to 9 having a great discussion this afternoon. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. Mr. Torres, what is 11 the count, as of yesterday or today? 12 MR. TORRES: Yesterday's count? Yesterday 13 evening we were at 2,732. This morning we are at 14 2,694. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: And your rated capacity is for 16 2,236, correct? 17 MR. TORRES: Correct. This is the spike 18 season. Our state fair just ended, and our historical 19 data always suggests this is our spike month. 20 The good news is, as Mr. Dantis pointed out, 21 for the first nine months of this year, calendar year 22 2008, for the first time in my 20-year history, 51 1 the -- and there was a short time span when we had a 2 judge in the facility just basically kicking everybody 3 out -- but the -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: That's one way of lowering the 5 population. 6 MR. TORRES: Yes, and with federal authority. 7 So, therefore, she was able to reduce our population. 8 Outside of her presence for that very short 9 period of time, never in the 20 years that I have been 10 in the facility have we experienced a month when we 11 compared to the same month the previous year, had a 12 reduction in our population. For nine straight months, 13 we have either been flat or below our population of 14 last year. 15 I believe -- I like to use the word "synergy" 16 is working in -- we have established recently a 17 criminal justice collaborative, or other communities 18 call it criminal justice coordinating councils. That 19 was much through the work of the Bernalillo County 20 government and effort, bringing all the players 21 together and saying, "The jail crowding is not a jail 22 issue, it's not a county issue, it's a criminal justice 52 1 issue." 2 And those initiatives that we have put 3 forward -- I believe that the funding that the county 4 has put forward to say, "Not only do we want you to 5 understand that it's your -- partly your issue, but we 6 want to help you with that issue, and we want to help 7 fund anything that you believe would be necessary to 8 improve and make more efficient your operations." And 9 as a byproduct, the entire system will be better off, 10 and certainly the jail population will be reduced. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: So you are presently at about 12 125 percent of rated capacity. 13 MR. TORRES: About 122 percent. We watch that 14 regularly. Yes, Sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 16 MR. DANTIS: And, you know, Mr. Chairman, it 17 goes back to the issue of solutions and symptoms, 18 dealing with the problem or the symptom of the problem. 19 My boss, Thaddeus Lucero, a number of months ago said, 20 "You know? We are shipping people to Muleshoe, Texas. 21 We are putting them in other county jails. Does that 22 solve our problem?" 53 1 When we add capacity -- or should we take the 2 money that we are spending, millions of dollars, couple 3 millions of dollars, and pump them into cost for 4 shipping people, inmates, to other areas -- or should 5 we partner with the DA, the public defender, the metro 6 court, the district court, and figure out ways where we 7 can be more efficient in the processing of these 8 individuals? 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. Now, isn't -- haven't 10 you just put your finger on the problem? The average 11 length of stay. I believe when I was out there you 12 said it's 240 days from booking to disposition? 13 MR. DANTIS: That's not the average length of 14 stay. That is the average that it is taking a felony 15 case to be processed through our system. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. So what's the 17 average length of stay? 18 MR. DANTIS: The average length of stay -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Torres? 20 MR. TORRES: There is two -- as I stated in 21 our opening when you visited the facility, we 22 do -- there is two methods by which we calculate it. 54 1 One is a snapshot. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 3 MR. TORRES: That snapshot takes whoever is in 4 custody that particular day, and then you -- 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And that's about 90 days? 6 MR. TORRES: That's about 90 days. And then, 7 because we are a jail, I believe it is critical to have 8 two calculations of your average length of stay: 9 jails, as opposed to prisons. 10 Prisons, for instance, don't have the 11 mitigating factor of bookings and releases on a regular 12 basis that would mitigate length of stay. 13 Now, if we look at a 30-day period, take 14 everyone that was booked and released during that 30 15 days, which is what most facilities do to calculate 16 their length of stay, we are at approximately 12 to 13 17 days. And that number is mitigated, obviously, by the 18 high number of bookings and immediate releases. 19 But I believe the snapshot tells us more of 20 the story of what's going on in the housing units. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: So you have mentioned a number 22 of steps that you're taking to try to shorten the 55 1 disposition time. Is that correct? 2 MR. DANTIS: That's absolutely correct. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: The 240-day period from 4 booking to disposition is what you're working with the 5 courts to shorten, is that right? 6 MR. DANTIS: That's one of the issues, yes, it 7 is. We have just let an RFP out, a request for 8 proposals. We had a felony case study that was done in 9 Bernalillo County. Told us that we had a few major 10 problem areas, in terms of processing. Ninety-eight 11 percent of all the cases get disposed of through plea 12 bargain. We have other issues. 13 So now the RFP is going to bring in a person 14 with the collaboration of the courts. They worked with 15 us on the scope of work, and that person or that 16 entity, the National Center for State Courts, whoever 17 gets the award, will come in and sit down with the 18 district court and take a look at areas where they can 19 create efficiencies in those processings. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 21 MR. DANTIS: So we are going full steam ahead 22 with that particular issue. 56 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Chief Torres, I just want to 2 make sure that the rest of the day we pretty much focus 3 on the policies, procedures, and the state of play as 4 of August of 2007. 5 MR. TORRES: Yes, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Because that's the snapshot 7 that this Panel has, based on the date of the survey. 8 So, if you and your staff could make sure that 9 you would -- in case I don't ask -- make sure that you 10 distinguish between -- in your answers -- between, 11 "Well, this is the way it was in August of 2007;" "This 12 is the way it is now." 13 And, in that vein, I wonder if you could just 14 tag very briefly for us, of the various things you 15 have -- very impressive steps that you have taken to 16 address the gorilla in the room, as I think you 17 described it, the 800-pound gorilla of overcrowding, 18 have any of those -- were any of those things in place 19 and in play and in process in August of 2007, or are 20 these all things that have pretty much happened since 21 the BJS survey results came out in June of 2008? 22 MR. TORRES: These are all things that have 57 1 evolved since then. We began to have -- 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Since when, Sir? 3 MR. TORRES: Since August of 2007. Actually, 4 since July, when -- Bernalillo took over the facility 5 in July of 2006. The discussions began, the collection 6 of data began, but it's a long, arduous process to come 7 up with not just, as Mr. Dantis alluded to, anecdotal 8 discussion of what's causing crowding, but actually 9 commissioning a study from the Institute of Social 10 Research at the University of New Mexico, to tell us 11 what is causing jail problems, Dr. Beck's report on 12 jail bloating referring to that study, and getting the 13 criminal justice system -- it was a long process of 14 education. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 16 MR. TORRES: And, once the education took 17 place, then I would say -- Mr. McFarland, to answer 18 your question directly -- the evolution of those 19 processes that are starting to create the synergy then 20 start taking place until probably the beginning of this 21 year -- 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 58 1 MR. TORRES: -- when the collaborative was 2 started. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. 4 MR. TORRES: Is that fair? 5 MR. MCFARLAND: That's great. Thank you very 6 much. Unless you have anything else -- Ms. Chunn? 7 MS. CHUNN: Yes. I feel a need to also sort 8 of set the tone. 9 You have referenced the number of other 10 accreditations that you have, and the involvement that 11 you have with the university system, and others. And I 12 think, personally, that is part of why you are turning 13 the corner so well, and doing great and wonderful 14 things. I mean, 800 classes going on at any given 15 time, that's just extremely impressive. The lack of 16 idle time has been a real issue. 17 But I would also like to say that our purpose 18 here is to focus on sexual abuse, sexual victimization, 19 all of the pieces that have to do with PREA, per se, 20 and that while we appreciate those other remarks about 21 your involvement, I think it's important for us to 22 remember that they don't have the same charge, in terms 59 1 of looking at this specific issue. 2 And this specific issue is so important, 3 because it has to do with the overall safety and 4 security of the facility, but more importantly, the 5 ethical and moral considerations that have to do with 6 quality of life issues. 7 So, I kind of felt like I should say that, 8 since most of you know I am very much affiliated with 9 ACA. I know what it means to have 98.3. And so, 10 certainly, I applaud that. But I did want to make sure 11 that we don't use that as a way of saying that we don't 12 need to look at the specific issues around PREA, and 13 focus our attention on that. Thank you. 14 MR. DANTIS: And I appreciate that. And I 15 think what we have just tried to do is just say that, 16 along with all those things, this -- PREA is also very 17 important. And it is integrated within the core of 18 safety within our operation. And we support that. 19 MS. CHUNN: Thank you. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. Thank you, gentlemen. 21 I am going to call up the panel number two, and just 22 have them reverse with panel number one. 60 1 And so, our next panel will be Kimberly 2 Valerio, health services professional; Elizabeth 3 Worsham, and Amy Abeyta. 4 (Pause.) 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Good morning. Would you mind 6 standing and raising your right hands, please? 7 Whereupon, 8 KIMBERLY VALERIO, ERIN WORSHAM 9 and AMY ABEYTA 10 were called as witnesses and, having been 11 first duly sworn, were examined and testified as 12 follows: 13 EXAMINATION 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. Please be seated. 15 Ms. Worsham, would you please give us your full name 16 and your title at MDC? 17 MS. WORSHAM: Yes. My name is Elizabeth Erin 18 Worsham, and I am the MDC training coordinator and PREA 19 coordinator at MDC. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: I couldn't quite hear the 21 first part. Not -- besides PREA coordinator, you are? 22 MS. WORSHAM: Training coordinator. 61 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Training coordinator. Yes. 2 And are you known around MDC as Erin, or -- 3 MS. WORSHAM: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Ms. Abeyta, good 5 morning. 6 MS. ABEYTA: My name is Amy Abeyta. I am 7 currently the upgrades classification supervisor. I'm 8 a classification specialist. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And by -- "upgrades 10 supervisor?" 11 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you cover all of the 13 classifications and reclassifications, or strictly 14 reclassifications of -- that involve upgrading risk or 15 security? 16 MS. ABEYTA: Both the initial classification 17 and all reclassifications, as well. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, great. And how long 19 have you been in that position at MDC? 20 MS. ABEYTA: I have been at MDC for three 21 years now. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 62 1 MS. ABEYTA: I have been the upgrade since 2 July of this year. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And so, in August of 2007, 4 what was your position? 5 MS. ABEYTA: Classification specialist in F 6 unit, Fox unit. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Classification specialist in F 8 unit? 9 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And how long -- from 11 what period of time to when were you in that position? 12 MS. ABEYTA: I have been in that position 13 until July of this year. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 15 MS. ABEYTA: I have always been at F unit. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you were the 17 classification specialist in F unit for the -- for 18 two-and-a-half years, or -- 19 MS. ABEYTA: My -- yes, Sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And, Ms. Worsham, how 21 long have you been at MDC? 22 MS. WORSHAM: I have been at MDC for 63 1 approximately three-and-a-half years. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Three-and-a-half? And were 3 you in the same -- were you the training coordinator in 4 August of 2007? 5 MS. WORSHAM: I was transitioning from the HR 6 officer into the training position, and had some kind 7 of co-occurring roles at that time. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry, and -- 9 MS. WORSHAM: I had some HR responsibilities, 10 as well, at that time. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, okay. And when were you 12 appointed PREA coordinator? 13 MS. WORSHAM: I would say approximately 14 October of 2007. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Great. Good morning, 16 Ms. Valerio. 17 MS. VALERIO: Good morning. I am Kimberly 18 Valerio. I am the director of nurses. I work for 19 Correctional Medical Services. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And that's a private 21 contractor? 22 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 64 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And, for the record, I 2 was handed a letter from an attorney for your employer, 3 who wanted to make sure that no mental health and 4 medical forms or job descriptions be made part of the 5 record. And we ordinarily do not post those anyway, 6 so -- 7 MS. VALERIO: Thank you for not giving away 8 our secrets. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, yes. I'm sure they have 10 a tremendous street value, but -- could you scoot that 11 closer to you? 12 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 13 MS. CHUNN: Ms. Worsham, can you hear me? Ms. 14 Worsham, I would like to start with what you do, as 15 PREA coordinator. When you were given that 16 role -- you've had that role just about a year now. 17 Tell me what you were told about it, and tell me what 18 your duties have been, and what you have done. 19 MS. WORSHAM: Okay. When I initially signed 20 in that capacity, my role was really limited to staff 21 training. So I was providing pre-service training, 22 in-service training, and support training, as needed, 65 1 on the topic. 2 Since then, my role has expanded 3 significantly. As the chief has mentioned, I am the 4 chairperson for the newly established PREA committee, 5 which will include an investigation overview component, 6 policy review component. It will also include the 7 development and implementation and oversight of a 8 sexual assault response team. 9 So, we have definitely expanded that. We are 10 also adding the greater level of inmate education into 11 that, as well, and have developed several tools 12 already, and will continue to do so. 13 MS. CHUNN: Tell me, what kind of training did 14 you receive in order to take on this new role? 15 MS. WORSHAM: I actually have a background, 16 prior to coming to corrections, working at a shelter 17 for victims of domestic violence. In that position, I 18 did receive training, of course, in regard to domestic 19 violence, of which sexual assault, sexual abuse, is 20 often a frequent component. 21 I have been trained by the Crime Victims 22 Reparation Commission as a victim's advocate, and have 66 1 technical training in regard to sexual assault from my 2 prior employment. 3 MS. CHUNN: Have you had occasion to read the 4 law that governs this issue? 5 MS. WORSHAM: Yes, I have. 6 MS. CHUNN: Tell me, as you move about 7 selecting the PREA committee -- is it committee? 8 MS. WORSHAM: It -- yes. It's 9 a -- we're -- we've been back and forth between PREA 10 review committee and PREA committee. 11 MS. CHUNN: All right. As you -- which one is 12 it? 13 MS. WORSHAM: Probably PREA review committee. 14 MS. CHUNN: Okay, PREA review committee. Tell 15 me how you went about constituting that committee, and 16 what charge has been given the committee. 17 MS. WORSHAM: As I mentioned, it is newly 18 established, so we are still in the process of 19 selecting members of that team. 20 However, my intention is to select a 21 multi-disciplinary panel of individuals from various 22 constituencies throughout the facility, so that we have 67 1 multiple input from multiple perspectives. 2 MS. CHUNN: And your reports will be submitted 3 to? 4 MS. WORSHAM: The chief of corrections, 5 absolutely. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: That's Mr. Torres? 7 MS. WORSHAM: That's right. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Ms. Valerio, I have -- you 9 were -- I think you gave me, or someone gave me while I 10 was there, a form entitled, "Medical History and 11 Screening, Correctional Medical Services," revised 12 12/05, and it's -- it has a duplicate. 13 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: A one-pager. Is this in use? 15 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And tell me what it's 17 used for. 18 MS. VALERIO: We use that at the intake 19 process. We have a paramedic that sits at the -- prior 20 to booking, to decide whether we can accept folks who 21 are being brought in by the -- by whatever agency is 22 bringing them. 68 1 So, there is a medical screening, and a mental 2 health screening that is done on every inmate, or 3 potential inmate. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And you mentioned the mental 5 health screen. Is this the document -- 6 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: -- CMS71-23, revised 6/07? 8 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And these are routinely 10 used by a -- by whom? 11 MS. VALERIO: They are routinely used by 12 anyone who sits at the intake process, which is 13 primarily a paramedic or a nurse. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you always have a 15 nurse at booking? 16 MS. VALERIO: Either a nurse or a paramedic. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So a CO does not fill 18 these out? 19 MS. VALERIO: No. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, I notice on the 21 first one, the medical history and screening, I don't 22 see anything here about -- and there is no question 69 1 about whether the person has been subject to sexual 2 abuse, rape. 3 MS. VALERIO: On the back there is a question. 4 If you will flip it over, there is a body map. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: A "body map?" Oh, all right. 6 MS. VALERIO: If -- 7 MR. MCFARLAND: I didn't -- 8 MS. VALERIO: If someone presents at the door, 9 and reports that they have been sexually assaulted 10 within the last 72 hours, they will -- we will not 11 accept them at the door. They will be referred to the 12 SANE unit. 13 We will determine medical stability, we will 14 determine if the person there is concerned about who 15 brought them, could be a potential perpetrator, and we 16 will make arrangements for someone else to take them, 17 such as the ambulance service. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you are referring to 19 question 10, a mental status questionnaire on the back 20 of the mental health -- on the back of the medical 21 history form, not the intake mental health screening 22 form. 70 1 MS. VALERIO: No, because that's a different 2 issue. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, yes. So, just for the 4 record, then, it's question 10, "Have you been sexually 5 assaulted within the last 30 days, yes or no?" 6 MS. VALERIO: Right. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: That is -- that would be the 8 only inquiry that is made at intake or booking 9 concerning sexual assault? 10 MS. VALERIO: Right. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, does your nurse or 12 paramedic always fill out the mental health screening 13 form, as well, at booking, or -- 14 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: -- only if -- let me just 16 finish the -- 17 MS. VALERIO: No. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: -- question. Do they always 19 fill this out, or do they only do so if the individual 20 indicates on the previous deal that he is suicidal? 21 MS. VALERIO: Every inmate. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Every inmate? 71 1 MS. VALERIO: Every inmates gets -- 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 3 MS. VALERIO: -- that. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And so, on this form, there is 5 a question 15, "Have you ever been arrested for a sex 6 offense," and 16, "Have you ever been victimized, i.e. 7 victim of physical or sexual abuse," yes or no, and 8 that question is not limited by the last 30 days. 9 MS. VALERIO: Right. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: So, has it been your 11 experience that, between those -- the two questions on 12 the CMS71-23 mental health screen and question 10 on 13 the back of the medical history, that you pretty much 14 thoroughly -- you know, you ask incoming inmates, as a 15 routine, about -- give them the opportunity to -- 16 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: -- to say they have been raped 18 or victimized? 19 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Has it been your 21 experience that folks who are just being brought into a 22 facility with 2,700 inmates are a bit nervous, and may 72 1 not want to 'fess up to having been arrested for a sex 2 offense, or been a victim of sexual abuse? 3 You don't -- there is not a whole lot of trust 4 already established there. Is -- 5 MS. VALERIO: I think it is dependant on who 6 is doing the intake, and the state of that individual 7 coming in. So I think that we do get answers, truthful 8 answers, and sometimes I think that people do not say. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And what is the environment in 10 which this -- these -- the screening is taking place? 11 Are you right next to the booking desk? 12 MS. VALERIO: The person who is answering the 13 questions and the potential inmate are in that little 14 room that we took you into. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 16 MS. VALERIO: The officer is not present. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. 18 MS. VALERIO: It's just the two of them, it's 19 a private conversation. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. And is a CO nearby? 21 MS. VALERIO: Not -- if we call out to them, 22 yes. 73 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So close enough for 2 safety purposes? 3 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: But not within earshot. 5 MS. VALERIO: Absolutely. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. 7 MS. CHUNN: Let me ask about the 30 days on 8 the history form. Is there some reason that you 9 specified 30 days, and not -- have you -- a longer 10 period of time? I mean -- 11 MS. VALERIO: It's a company form, so I 12 couldn't answer that. 13 Our biggest concern at the door is to make 14 sure that if someone has been sexually assaulted within 15 the last 72 hours, that we get them the stuff that they 16 need right away. 17 If they don't say anything at the doorway, and 18 they report after they have been booked, and it's still 19 within a 72-hour window, we still make arrangements to 20 get them the care that they need. 21 MS. CHUNN: I can understand the 72 hours, but 22 the question reads, "Have you been sexually assaulted 74 1 within the last 30 days?" 2 MS. VALERIO: I didn't write the question, 3 Ma'am, so I don't know -- it's a form given to me by my 4 company. 5 MS. CHUNN: Right. 6 MS. VALERIO: And I don't know their rationale 7 for why it's 30 days. It doesn't make sense to me, so 8 I -- 9 MR. MCFARLAND: It does not make sense to you? 10 MS. VALERIO: Not necessarily. But I have 11 blond hair, so -- 12 MS. CHUNN: Okay. Okay. 13 MS. VALERIO: I -- really, I can't answer it. 14 And -- 15 MS. CHUNN: Yes, yes, I will leave that. 16 MS. VALERIO: -- it isn't my question -- I'm 17 sorry. 18 MS. CHUNN: But, you know, what we are looking 19 for here is, you know, whether or not there is evidence 20 of that. And to limit it to 30 days seems to me very 21 strange. And so I thought perhaps you could share some 22 insight. 75 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Ms. Valerio, how often does a 2 nurse go through the pods? 3 MS. VALERIO: Segregation pods have a nurse in 4 there every single day providing sick call and seg 5 rounds. And in our detox pods, we have a nurse every 6 six hours. In our med pass, we have -- they're not 7 necessarily nurses, but they're med passers in 8 the -- all pods, twice a day, in our -- 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And what's a med pass? 10 MS. VALERIO: They pass medications. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, med pass, okay. 12 MS. VALERIO: Med passers, sorry. And so 13 they're in the pods twice a day. 14 In our HSU pods, which is our psych units, we 15 have nurses in there all day long. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: So -- but general population, 17 not seg, general population. 18 MS. VALERIO: They have a nurse in the pod 19 five days a week. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 21 MS. VALERIO: And then they have the med 22 passers in the pods twice a day. 76 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. 2 MS. VALERIO: So you have three medical people 3 in general population -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And in -- 5 MS. VALERIO: -- five days a week. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And in your -- I'm sorry, I 7 didn't ask how long you have been at MDC. 8 MS. VALERIO: I have been at MDC 22 months. I 9 have been the director of nurses 16 months. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did you start as 11 director of nursing? 12 MS. VALERIO: I accepted that job June 9, 13 2007. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: So you were director of nurses 15 when the BJS contractors came through with the survey, 16 is that right? 17 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And that was in August 19 of last year? 20 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Can -- what's your 22 understanding of any duty to report, by a nurse, and 77 1 how that cuts against your duty to be -- to keep the 2 patient confidences, you know, a secret. 3 MS. VALERIO: (No response.) 4 MR. MCFARLAND: If you have these nurses going 5 through the pods five days a week, have any of your 6 nurses ever had someone come up to them and say, "Hey, 7 I've got a sensitive matter. I am being sexually 8 pressured," or, "I witnessed a rape," or anything of 9 that nature? 10 MS. VALERIO: Our first concern always is 11 going to be the safety of the inmate who is reporting. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. My question is has that 13 ever happened. Have you ever had any of your staff 14 come to you, as director of nursing in the last 16 15 months, and say, "I was told by an inmate that he was 16 raped or sexually molested," or harassed? 17 MS. VALERIO: They haven't come to talk to me. 18 They followed the protocol. And I -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: "They," being the nurses? 20 MS. VALERIO: "They," being the nurses. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So have you ever heard 22 one of your staff pass on to you, whether it's at the 78 1 time, or after the protocol has been followed? 2 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: They have said, "Yes, I have 4 heard it from an inmate." 5 MS. VALERIO: "An inmate" -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: "On one of my rounds." 7 MS. VALERIO: "An inmate alleged that he was 8 sexually assaulted," and -- 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 10 MS. VALERIO: And he was brought down. I 11 said, "What did you do," and they had him brought to 12 medical, and then we did our investigation, determined 13 whether we needed to send him to the SANE unit, or did 14 we just need to schedule him with the provider and 15 start prophylactic medication and testing. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, we will get to 17 the process in a second. Have you ever had any inmate 18 at MDC confide that they had been raped? 19 MS. VALERIO: No. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 21 MS. CHUNN: Ms. Valerio, along the same line, 22 one common practice in a lot of facilities like this 79 1 with medical staff, and with clinical, other clinical 2 staff, is that they will say to inmates, "If you tell 3 me anything that I must report, such as that you have 4 drugs or that you are involved in something that is 5 clearly against the law, I am obligated, 6 professionally, to disclose that information." 7 Do your nurses say that, up front, when they 8 are talking to any of the detainees there? 9 MS. VALERIO: No. 10 MS. CHUNN: They do not? 11 MS. VALERIO: No. 12 MS. CHUNN: And so, then, the nurses would be 13 people who would be approachable, from the point of 14 view of the detainees, in terms of disclosing any 15 number of things that, otherwise, might not be talked 16 about? 17 MS. VALERIO: I think so. 18 MS. CHUNN: Okay. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: But what happened to 20 their -- what's your understanding of their duty to 21 keep those kinds of confidences secret? 22 MS. VALERIO: Well, the issue at hand is how 80 1 do you keep something like that secret, and do what's 2 right for them? 3 So, I am hoping -- well, and I can speak for 4 myself, and how I am -- I call my kids, how I'm raising 5 my kids over there, is that they're going to do what's 6 in the best interest of that individual. They know 7 that if they're not sure what to do, that they can come 8 and talk to me, and we will figure out what we need to 9 do. 10 And if that means that we bring five people 11 down from F unit just to get to the one person, we will 12 do that, and then isolate that one person and then talk 13 to them, and give them an opportunity to -- let them 14 know what we need to do, and what is in their best 15 interest, and how we can help them, so that they're not 16 too afraid to report. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Is -- do you have a doctor on 18 staff? 19 MS. VALERIO: Yes, we do. We have two. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And on what hours? Are they 21 full-time, or -- 22 MS. VALERIO: We have two doctors that are 81 1 full-time. Our medical director, Dr. SOMEBODY, works 2 seven days a week, pretty much. And Dr. SOMEBODY works 3 five days a week, and he sees all the clinic providers. 4 And we have a nurse practitioner, and she works also 5 five days a week. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. Are these all on the 7 day shift? 8 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And how long does it take for 10 a medical request to -- you know, to turn into an 11 appointment if it's not an emergency? 12 MS. VALERIO: It depends on the complaint. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 14 MS. VALERIO: So, anywhere from the next day 15 to two weeks. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 17 MS. CHUNN: What would be an example of 18 something that would require two weeks? 19 MS. VALERIO: If it's a med renewal and their 20 meds are fixing to expire, we will put them in -- they 21 are probably already scheduled, but we will put them in 22 for a renewal. 82 1 And if it's chronic issues that are not 2 medically necessary, but the patient feels like they're 3 medically necessary, we will put them in. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: What if -- 5 MS. VALERIO: But we have a chronic clinic 6 that runs five days a week, and so we have to work all 7 those other requests in, plus seeing all of our folks 8 who are, you know, hypertension, diabetes, things like 9 that. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: How long would it take for 11 someone who is alleging that they had been, say, anally 12 raped? 13 MS. VALERIO: Well, those folks would be seen 14 by medical the same day that they allege. We will 15 determine their medical stability. That's something 16 that we may have to send out to the hospital, so we 17 would send them out then. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 19 MS. VALERIO: And it doesn't matter what time 20 of day that is. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. And do you have a SANE 22 nurse on staff? 83 1 MS. VALERIO: I am -- was a SANE nurse until I 2 took the DON job, and then I couldn't fit both. So -- 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 4 MS. VALERIO: Up until January of this year, I 5 was a SANE nurse. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And, for the record, 7 we're talking about a sexual -- 8 MS. VALERIO: Sexual assault nurse examiner. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: -- assault nursing examiner. 10 So you are trained, but you haven't maintained your 11 certification, or what? How does that work? 12 MS. VALERIO: I haven't picked up any shifts. 13 So I have resigned that position until I 14 have -- staffing is much more stable, then I can be on 15 call. I am on call for the facility, and I can't be 16 tied up doing an assault if I have to respond to the 17 facility. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, right now, there is 19 not -- there is no one who can respond to the need for 20 a SANE nurse. You have to send that out, is that 21 right? 22 MS. VALERIO: We have always had to send them 84 1 out, yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you don't have rape 3 kits on site? 4 MS. VALERIO: No. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Do any of the staff have 6 training in how to administer a rape kit, or otherwise 7 maintain -- 8 MS. VALERIO: Evidence? 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Maintain the forensic 10 evidence, yes. 11 MS. VALERIO: No -- 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, do you have -- 13 MS. VALERIO: Just me. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 15 MS. VALERIO: We do -- are potentially having 16 a memorandum of understanding with the SANE 17 collaborative, where they will come in on site to do 18 cases. And probably what will happen is I will be one 19 of those people, since I am familiar with the facility, 20 and then the nursing director will be the other one 21 from SANE who will come in if I am not available. 22 MS. CHUNN: Before you moved in to your 85 1 current position, how many occasions did you have, the 2 year previous to that, to function in that capacity, of 3 a -- 4 MS. VALERIO: As a SANE nurse? 5 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 6 MS. VALERIO: I was a SANE nurse for two 7 years. 8 MS. CHUNN: Right. And how much activity did 9 you see in that period around that issue? 10 MS. VALERIO: Feast or famine. I think I was 11 pretty busy. I was on call weekend nights, so I 12 probably had a case a shift, at least. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: You had a sexual assault case 14 every shift? 15 MS. VALERIO: As a SANE nurse. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: As a SANE nurse, for the two 17 years that you were the SANE nurse? 18 MS. VALERIO: Mm-hmm, pretty much. Not at the 19 jail. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh. 21 MS. VALERIO: Not at the jail. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, okay. 86 1 MS. VALERIO: Not at the jail. 2 MS. CHUNN: That is an important 3 clarification. 4 MS. VALERIO: They're going to make me ride 5 home by myself. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Let's back up 7 here. How long have you been at MDC? When did you 8 first set foot on MDC? 9 MS. VALERIO: January of 2007. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you became director 11 of nursing at MDC -- 12 MS. VALERIO: June 9th of 2007. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. I'm going to need to 14 finish the question -- 15 MS. VALERIO: Sorry. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: -- before you answer it, okay? 17 All right. 18 Since you've been at MDC, how many occasions 19 have there been when you recommending sending an inmate 20 out to see a SANE nurse? 21 MS. VALERIO: For our ER log, for the year 22 2007, we sent 7. 87 1 MR. MCFARLAND: How many did you recommend get 2 sent? 3 MS. VALERIO: I personally didn't recommend. 4 They follow the protocol. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Who is "they?" 6 MS. VALERIO: The nurse who is working at 7 the -- our emergency station, medical one. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And how many nurses 9 fill that role at MDC? 10 MS. VALERIO: I have 16 RN FTEs. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Sixteen FTEs? 12 MS. VALERIO: Sixteen FTEs. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Wow. 14 MS. VALERIO: Between mental health and 15 medical. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 17 MS. VALERIO: It's a -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Now you just -- 19 MS. VALERIO: It's a rotating position, so -- 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And you just handed me, a few 21 minutes ago, the ER logs that you were just referring 22 to. Is that right? 88 1 MS. VALERIO: Yes, I did. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And do you have the same 3 information for the first six months and eight months 4 of this year? 5 MS. VALERIO: No. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 7 MS. VALERIO: I can get that. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Is a medical professional at 9 MDC ever alone with an inmate in an examination room? 10 MS. VALERIO: It depends. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. When? 12 MS. VALERIO: If they're just having a 13 conversation, then they have the right to privacy, and 14 so there isn't anyone standing there within earshot of 15 needing help. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Is the door closed? 17 MS. VALERIO: It depends on the conversation, 18 I think. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 20 MS. VALERIO: Primarily, I think the door is 21 closed. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is there a window in 89 1 the door? 2 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Are there windows in 4 the wall for all the examination rooms? Can you see 5 into the examination rooms -- 6 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: -- other than through the 8 window and the door? 9 MS. VALERIO: No. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: No other windows? 11 MS. VALERIO: No other windows. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, all right. 13 MS. VALERIO: The dental has windows, but the 14 other ones just have windows in the doors. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Right. 16 MS. CHUNN: Is the large number of FTE nurses 17 a result of -- well, it may not feel that way to you, 18 but trust me -- is that large number a result of the 19 class action suit? 20 MS. VALERIO: I don't know. They have -- 21 MS. CHUNN: They've always been there, since 22 you've been there? 90 1 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 2 MS. CHUNN: I will ask the question later on, 3 thank you. 4 MS. VALERIO: Okay. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: So, there are instances where 6 a doctor could be alone with an inmate in an 7 examination room? 8 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: When is that door supposed to 10 be open? What kind of circumstance is the examination 11 room door supposed to be open, if at all? 12 MS. VALERIO: I think -- 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Or is that just up to the 14 judgment of the nurse or the -- 15 MS. VALERIO: I think it's the questions that 16 we are -- that they will be discussing, what private 17 things are they discussing. Lots of people walk that 18 hallway, so they do have a right to privacy. So I 19 think that they choose to close the door. If they kept 20 the door open, it may be because they don't feel safe 21 in some form or fashion. I think, primarily, the doors 22 are closed. 91 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And where are the COs, 2 if any, in the infirmary? 3 MS. VALERIO: We have -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Or the -- 5 MS. VALERIO: -- two COs that are assigned to 6 us. One is assigned at the front, when you walk in, 7 and the other is assigned to the medical housing, in 8 the back. So those -- that officer takes care of those 9 folks that are in our medical housing unit, and the 10 officer here, up front, lets in and out inmates, checks 11 them in, and patrols the hall. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 13 MS. CHUNN: Do you have both male and female 14 nurses? 15 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And your -- I think you 17 mentioned two doctors? 18 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Were they both there in August 20 of 2007? 21 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Are they both male? 92 1 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you have a female nurse 3 practitioner? 4 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Are the RNs allowed to do 6 exams? 7 MS. VALERIO: We do assessments. We don't do 8 full-on exams. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Are you -- you're aware 10 of the instance of a medical professional working for 11 CMS, a male, who allegedly inappropriately touched a 12 number of female inmates at MDC? 13 MS. VALERIO: I didn't know about it until you 14 brought it up in the hallway, so then I had to turn 15 around and ask. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 17 MS. VALERIO: I don't have any of those 18 details, as -- I just said, "Did we have something 19 happen," and they said that there was an allegation 20 made, and that's all I know about it. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you know what happened to 22 that co-worker? 93 1 MS. VALERIO: He does not work for 2 Metropolitan Detention Center, but he is still employed 3 with Correctional Medical Services at an all-male 4 facility. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Did you ever ask what 6 he had done or not done that got him banned from the 7 MDC? 8 MS. VALERIO: When I took -- when I came in, 9 we had lost the DON and a -- we are also removing a 10 psychiatrist, and our HSA was leaving. So I was trying 11 to just duck and cover. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 13 MS. VALERIO: I didn't even have an 14 opportunity to know about it. I was sent to training 15 in August in St. Louis, so when I -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: August of 2007? 17 MS. VALERIO: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 19 MS. VALERIO: So a lot of things were 20 happening as I was getting -- just getting training. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. Would it concern you 22 if -- to know that the word had got around among many 94 1 of the inmates that the infirmary was a place where 2 sexual misconduct was going on on a, you know, a 3 repeated basis, and that somebody had been canned, as a 4 result of it? 5 Would that be something that you would want to 6 know, as the director of nursing, what the reputation 7 of the -- 8 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: -- the infirmary was? 10 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Ms. Abeyta, could you 12 tell me what training and background you have had to 13 develop -- you know, to develop your qualifications as 14 a classification specialist? 15 MS. ABEYTA: Prior to working at the 16 Metropolitan Detention Center, I worked for a 17 year-and-a-half with the mentally disabled, mentally 18 ill, as a case manager. My role there was to provide 19 programming, make sure they had jobs. If they needed 20 some sort of treatment or a person to take care of 21 them, I would find somebody. We would do reviews 22 monthly with certain people, six months with other 95 1 people, annually with the people who were not acute 2 patients. 3 And, prior to that, I went to the University 4 of New Mexico, sociology major, minor in Chicano 5 studies. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. That's the Lobos, 7 right? 8 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Let me ask you 10 what instrument, if any, do you use -- and your staff 11 use -- to assess inappropriate classification, 12 appropriate housing, risk classification for the 13 inmates. Just maybe you could walk us through the 14 process of classification. 15 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: As of August of 2007. 17 MS. ABEYTA: As of August of 2007, when a 18 person comes into custody, after they -- I'm sorry, 19 after they -- sorry. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Move that a little closer. 21 MS. ABEYTA: Is that better? 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 96 1 MS. ABEYTA: After they leave the booking 2 area, they are put in seg eight for the males, and seg 3 seven for the females. Within 48 hours, a 4 classification officer will go in there and do an 5 assessment with each individual. It happens seven days 6 a week. 7 Some of the questions we do ask are what your 8 current charges are. If the inmate does not know that, 9 we do know that, we have the booking sheet provided to 10 us, stating what the inmate is currently in custody 11 for. 12 Another question we ask is do they have any 13 co-defendants in custody. If they do, we would like 14 the names. That way, we can include them as keep-aways 15 in the system. 16 We also ask them if they have ever been 17 assaulted in the facility. If they tell us yes, we ask 18 if they know who the person who assaulted them was, so 19 we can also enter that in as a keep-away, if it is not 20 already in the system to begin with. 21 We also ask if the person feels safe to go 22 into general population. If the person tells us yes, 97 1 we have them sign a waiver, stating that they 2 understand that we will classify them to general 3 population. If the person tells us they don't feel 4 safe, we ask them if they would like to be placed in 5 protective custody. At that point, if the person does 6 say yes, we fill out the form and send them to seg one, 7 which is our protective custody unit. At any time they 8 can sign out of seg one. 9 Most of our -- we also ask prison time, if 10 they have any type of prison time. And that also plays 11 a major role in classifying people. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is there anything else 13 that relates to the subject of sexual assault, rape, 14 being a sexual assault victim, being a perpetrator, any 15 other kind of questioning along those lines that are 16 involved in the initial intake classification? 17 MS. ABEYTA: No, Sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 19 MS. CHUNN: Is there any attention given to 20 whether or not the information provided by the detainee 21 might suggest that there are other things to be 22 examined from the social history? 98 1 For example, that -- having been raped in 30 2 days, or having been a sexual predator, a child 3 molester, any of those kinds of things. Is any of that 4 garnered and taken into account as you are considering 5 the classification of the detainee? 6 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Ma'am. Any form 7 of -- anybody who is in custody for criminal sexual 8 penetration, whether it be of a minor or of an adult, 9 is taken into consideration, and we specifically ask if 10 they would like to be placed in protective custody. 11 As far as are they a potential predator, we 12 don't have any information of that, unless it is 13 entered in our database as stating that they have had 14 issues in the past. And that is taken into 15 consideration when we classify. We look at previous 16 classifications and previous housing units, to make a 17 determination of where a proper place for this person 18 can be. 19 MS. CHUNN: I believe that earlier there was 20 some reference made by Ms. Valerio to some detainees 21 who, when they present themselves at the door, may not 22 be eligible for entering at that point, because of 99 1 other problems and what have you. 2 What happens to those people who carry a 3 history of, let's say, mental health issues that might 4 make them unstable? How does that affect the 5 classification? 6 And, Ms. Valerio, anything you might want to 7 add about what alternative placements may be available, 8 or -- and I know this question is getting long, he's 9 looking at me -- but I didn't go to law school, so I 10 don't have to -- you know? I can be who I am. Or, if 11 a person becomes unstable while they're in there, and 12 they have already been classified. You got it? 13 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Ma'am. 14 MS. CHUNN: Okay. 15 MS. ABEYTA: I will -- when a person comes 16 into booking, if anybody deems them mentally incapable 17 of going to seg eight or seg seven, they -- a psych 18 technician is called in, and they make the 19 determination as to who is placed in the PAC unit, the 20 HSU unit. 21 At that point, they will remain in there under 22 the supervision of the psych unit until the 100 1 classification specialist is given a release form 2 stating that this person is now competent to go to 3 general population if the person wishes. That case 4 worker -- that classification specialist then goes into 5 the pod, speaks to the inmate, the individual, and 6 makes the determination of a proper housing unit. 7 Typically, with mental health patients, we try 8 to put them in more of the program pods, and things of 9 that nature, where there is more interaction. And we 10 let the case manager of that unit know that, "There are 11 these people coming into your pods, keep an eye on 12 them." That way, they are aware that -- who they are 13 getting, prior to them even coming into the pod. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: How do you let them know that? 15 MS. ABEYTA: Through e-mail. We actually send 16 a move list out. And Elise V. Hill, she is our HSU 17 classification specialist, she is very well about 18 sending out e-mails saying, "I am sending this 19 individual. I assume this would be a good 20 classification. Let me know if there is any 21 possibilities or potential safety hazards," and then -- 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And -- 101 1 MS. ABEYTA: -- we let -- 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And who does that e-mail go 3 to? 4 MS. ABEYTA: It goes to the case managers over 5 the unit, whether it be D unit, E unit, F unit, or 6 segregation, and it's also carbon copied to the 7 supervisor. 8 So, I can follow up and make sure with 9 security or the case managers that these people are 10 functioning properly in general population. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Is there a way -- any 12 way -- of ensuring that the correctional officers who 13 are in the pod and need to be actually keeping an eye 14 on these folks get that information from the case 15 manager or the unit manager? 16 MS. ABEYTA: Typically, our case managers in 17 the units have a good reputation with the sergeants and 18 the captains. 19 I know from experience in F unit -- I worked 20 with Cpt. Thomas -- any time I felt there was a 21 potential for a safety hazard, I would inform him and 22 let him know, "We need to keep an eye on this person or 102 1 this person, because they were moved into our unit." 2 MS. VALERIO: I just wanted to add that we 3 have 700 people on our caseload, our psychiatric 4 caseload. Every person at the door who tests -- or 5 answers positive to the mental health screen is seen by 6 a counselor, and we determine -- the counselor then 7 will, as she said, determine whether they are -- need 8 to go to our acute psych unit or a step-down unit, 9 whether they get placed on suicide watch or clinical 10 seclusion. 11 They are also seen by a psychiatrist within 24 12 hours of booking, which is unheard of, nationwide. So 13 once they get moved into the psych units, once they're 14 cleared, our counselors also have the ability to go to 15 classification and say, "We are concerned about this 16 person or this person. We would like them not to go 17 here. If we can keep them out of here" -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Mm-hmm. 19 MS. VALERIO: And then, we have counselors on 20 24-7, so if there is a crisis on a pod, they are able 21 to call -- the officers are able to call and say, "Can 22 you come and talk with this person?" 103 1 So, we get a lot of those calls for anxiety or 2 for anything, but there is an ability to get out there 3 and see them 24-7, by a counselor. And we also have 4 the ability to move them. If we didn't like where they 5 were classed, or they weren't doing well, we could 6 suggest that they get moved. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. We're going to take a 8 10-minute break. We will reconvene at 5 of 11:00. 9 (A brief recess was taken.) 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, we will get started. 11 Ms. Abeyta, you were kind enough to give us MDC-33 12 form, one-page, classification interview form. 13 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Is this the form that you use 15 today for classifying in booking? 16 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. In seg eight or seg 17 seven -- seg seven is for the females, seg eight is for 18 the males. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Same form used for both? 20 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And was this in use in 22 August of 2007? 104 1 MS. ABEYTA: I believe it was in use in August 2 of 2007, Sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you were a 4 classification specialist in unit F -- 5 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: -- at that time, right? 7 MS. ABEYTA: Yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 9 MS. ABEYTA: It's a general population pod. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 11 MS. ABEYTA: They have already been 12 classified, once they came to my units. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, okay. So you don't have 14 firsthand knowledge as to whether this form was being 15 used in August of 2007. 16 MS. ABEYTA: When I was originally trained I 17 had to spend time in classification. And at the time 18 of my training, that was in use. And under my 19 assumptions, it has not changed. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Let me just -- we want to talk 21 about that training in a second, but let me just ask. 22 Under risk assessment, there is the question, "Has 105 1 subject ever been assaulted by inmates?" 2 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: There is nothing about has the 4 subject ever been assaulted by staff. 5 MS. ABEYTA: No, Sir. There is not. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Why not? 7 MS. ABEYTA: I couldn't answer. I wasn't the 8 one who created the form. It was in use prior to me 9 coming into the facility. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. Next question is, "Is 11 subject a potential victim of an assault?" 12 Is that a question that you direct -- I mean, 13 how do you determine that? Is that a question you ask 14 the inmate, or is this an opinion that they're calling 15 for? And if so, what kind of criteria do you use? 16 MS. ABEYTA: It's more of an opinion. We ask 17 the person, the inmate, if they feel comfortable going 18 to general population. If they hesitate when they tell 19 us, we might go into reasons why there might be a 20 possibility. 21 Most of the time, or when I was trained in 22 classification, a lot of the inmates were, "I want to 106 1 go to general population, don't put me in PC," and 2 I -- you know, I would make that assessment, that they 3 didn't have any concern about going to general 4 population. 5 I remember one time when I was classifying, a 6 younger inmate did have a concern about going to 7 general population. And when I did his final 8 classification, I did keep that in mind when I was 9 placing him in a unit. I didn't want to place him 10 somewhere where I felt he wouldn't be safe. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: What goes on in protective 12 custody, such that somebody would say, "Please don't 13 put me in PC?" 14 MS. ABEYTA: I think the reason -- my personal 15 opinion on this is that they feel that they are being 16 labeled a sex predator of some sort, or a child 17 molester. Because a lot of the people in protective 18 custody are in there for those reasons, or because they 19 have told on other inmates in the past and cannot 20 function in general population. 21 So I have -- that's my understanding as to why 22 people don't want to go to protective custody. 107 1 MR. MCFARLAND: And do they also have access 2 to the same level of programming in PC? 3 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. I believe they have 4 added a little bit more programming, currently, to 5 protective custody. I don't have the actual -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. 7 MS. ABEYTA: -- information. I would have to 8 get that from the programs manager. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And who is that? Who would be 10 the most knowledgeable? 11 MS. ABEYTA: His name is Tony Aguilar. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 13 MS. ABEYTA: And he is the one who facilitates 14 setting up the programs in the units, and 15 participation. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And who among the team that 17 has come today from your facility would be most 18 knowledgeable about what programming is available to 19 somebody in protective custody? 20 MS. ABEYTA: I would assume it would be Frank 21 Maestas, Cpt. Maestas. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 108 1 MS. ABEYTA: That is his unit of supervision. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, all right. And 3 how -- what is -- are the characteristics of a 4 potential victim of a sexual assault? 5 MS. ABEYTA: Do you want my personal opinion, 6 or -- 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, I want your -- 8 MS. ABEYTA: Like, what I would assess as a -- 9 MR. MCFARLAND: I -- 10 MS. ABEYTA: If I was classifying somebody? 11 MR. MCFARLAND: The latter. 12 MS. ABEYTA: Okay. My assessment would be 13 somebody who has never been in the facility before, 14 first time in trouble, on a felony, pending felony 15 indictment, because those are the more serious charges, 16 where typically the people that are here on felonies 17 have had other felonies in the past. 18 So, a young -- I would say 18 to 25-year-old 19 -- small-statured male, would be my idea as a 20 potential risk for a sexual assault. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: What other factors go into 22 your thinking in answering the question, "Is subject a 109 1 potential victim of an assault," at 2 least -- specifically about a sexual assault? 3 MS. ABEYTA: I would have to say if a person 4 is a homosexual, or a transgender. Most of the time, 5 when I was trained in classification, they would come 6 forth with that information. Or you could -- on some 7 cases you could physically see the way they wore their 8 hair, they had the long fingernails, the nature of the 9 way they spoke. 10 MS. CHUNN: Ms. Abeyta, while we are talking 11 about that, would you share with us the training that 12 you have had in -- to be a classification officer? 13 More specifically, any training you may have had in 14 assessing risk. 15 MS. ABEYTA: In assessing risk? Well, our 16 function, as classification specialist, is to, you 17 know, safely house the inmates properly in the right 18 classification. 19 I was -- during my training, I was informed of 20 what to look for, as far as, like, gang affiliations 21 go, you know, trying to -- if -- this is an 22 example -- let's say you have a young inmate who is 18, 110 1 19, who came into custody for aggravated assault with a 2 deadly weapon. Automatically, that classification, 3 just based solely on charges, is going to be a 4 higher-level felony pod, would be like an E-6, which is 5 a high level, F-7, or an F-8. 6 Being that he has only been in, let's say, 7 custody one time, he, you know, looks a little bit 8 afraid, I would -- you would not want to put them in 9 E-6 or F-8, where some of these inmates have been in 10 the juvenile detention center, have been in custody 11 several times. I would put him in, like, a God's pod, 12 the F-7 pod, where there is zero tolerance for 13 misbehavior, any little infraction can get you removed 14 from the program for the remainder of your stay. 15 Also, I did the 40-hour training that the 16 training academy offers all in-coming staff members. 17 MS. CHUNN: What problems do you face in 18 placing people, based on having done the 19 classification, given that you are over your stated bed 20 capacity? 21 MS. ABEYTA: The main problem is -- I don't 22 know if anyone told you, but we have a gang war of some 111 1 sort going on in Albuquerque right now. So, safety, as 2 far as fights go, is one of our main concerns. There 3 is a lot of keep-aways that we have to keep away from 4 each other. 5 So, we are always constantly checking and 6 updating keep-aways, in order to make sure that we are 7 not mixing people who could potentially get in a fight, 8 not only injure the inmates, but the staff around, as 9 well. I think that is one of our main concerns. 10 Of course, overcrowding, it makes it real 11 difficult at times to select places for a person to be 12 housed. But we do the best we can. And if we don't 13 feel comfortable moving someone to a location, we send 14 them to reclass committee, which is a -- it's in 15 segregation. That next day they are -- a panel of five 16 people decide a better spot, whether it be lowering 17 their classification or increasing their 18 classification. 19 Because in our unit, we can -- I cannot move 20 you to a lower classification level, or raise your 21 classification, without it going through a committee 22 first. 112 1 MS. CHUNN: Do the gang wars carry with them 2 sexual aggression that gets acted out in the facility? 3 MS. ABEYTA: Not to my knowledge. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: So, Ms. Abeyta, just as far as 5 your qualifications or training in correctional 6 classification, in addition to your BA in sociology, 7 and your experience with -- as a case manager with the 8 mentally ill, you also had the standard 40-hour academy 9 training for all staff. 10 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And you -- tell me a little 12 bit more about the specialized training that you had, 13 in addition to that. 14 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. I worked with 15 classification, initially classifying people for two 16 weeks on my coming into the -- as a case manager. And 17 then I worked with other case workers for, I want to 18 say, about a month, learning the ins and outs of how to 19 work with inmates in the facility, and -- 20 MR. MCFARLAND: This was on-the-job training, 21 then? 22 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 113 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 2 MS. ABEYTA: And I think I am still learning 3 today. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. Now, did you have any 5 -- did you go to any kind of a seminar, or watch any 6 kind of a training video, or anything else that, you 7 know, supplemented your expertise about classification? 8 MS. ABEYTA: A lot of it is stuff that I have 9 done on my own, as far as reading and seeing, like, 10 what other people know about classification. 11 I had the privilege of working with some 12 pretty good supervisors so far, who have had extensive 13 years of experience, so I think hearing what people 14 have done in the past, and learning from that, is how I 15 am a better learner. 16 So, I go off of that. Like, if you were to 17 tell me some of your experiences, I would probably 18 learn a thing or two from you, too. 19 MS. CHUNN: Oh, yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: In your professional opinion, 21 would you like to see this form amended so that it 22 doesn't just ask whether the subject has ever been 114 1 assaulted by inmates, but clarifies that it could be an 2 assault by staff, as well? 3 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. I think a change to 4 the form is a great idea, and I -- it was one of the 5 things that I wanted to bring forth to our PREA 6 committee, when it's assembled, that perhaps maybe we 7 can enter that in, as being an assessment, as well. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. And now, am I correct in 9 understanding that you said that there is -- that all 10 the new admitees come to -- are placed in either seg 11 seven or seg eight? Seg seven for the women, seg eight 12 for the men? 13 MS. ABEYTA: Now, there is an exception to 14 that. If, at booking, they inform the sergeant, the 15 CO, the medical staff, any of the people in booking, 16 that they don't want to go to the general population, 17 we will admin seg them at that point -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 19 MS. ABEYTA: -- to ensure their safety. But 20 we will classify them -- it doesn't necessarily mean 21 they have to leave admin seg. But if they do choose to 22 do so, we know where we can send them. 115 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, if somebody doesn't 2 disclose to Ms. Valerio, or whoever, or the paramedic, 3 or the nurse who is doing the medical screening and 4 mental health screening that we already talked about, 5 if that individual doesn't concede that he or she was a 6 victim of sexual abuse, or had been sexually assaulted 7 within the last 30 days, or was convicted of a sex 8 offense, then they can wind up in seg eight or seg 9 seven for as long as 48 hours before they might get 10 classified, is that correct? 11 MS. ABEYTA: That's correct, Sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Has it been your experience 13 that it sometimes can be longer than 48 hours? 14 MS. ABEYTA: No longer than 48 hours. We 15 classify seven days a week, on holidays, and everything 16 like that, so -- 17 MR. MCFARLAND: How many folks do you have 18 doing that? 19 MS. ABEYTA: We have three that classify for 20 seg seven and seg eight, and we have one person that 21 classifies for the HSU, the PAC unit, the psych unit of 22 the facility. 116 1 But, if need be, we are all cross-trained to 2 do it. And if push comes to shove, we will go in 3 there, and we will all work together, as a team, to get 4 as many people classified as possible. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And what would be your 6 qualifications to classify for the psych or detox 7 programs? 8 MS. ABEYTA: They have to be cleared. If they 9 came in intoxicated, they have to be cleared by medical 10 first, before we can release them to general 11 population. 12 And we actually get -- it's like a three-ply 13 form, I believe it is. We get a copy of the three-ply 14 form, letting us know that this person has been cleared 15 by medical, or by PAC -- PSU, to go to general 16 population. And we attach that clearance form to our 17 classification. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What training, if you 19 know, have the pod counselors, the -- you've got case 20 managers in the pods, and you have counselors in the 21 pods, right, in the general population? 22 MS. ABEYTA: I am not overseeing the 117 1 counselors. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Then we will ask maybe 3 the next panel. Or, Ms. Valerio, it looks like you 4 have -- 5 MS. VALERIO: Are you asking about the 6 psychiatric counselors, or the -- 7 MR. MCFARLAND: No, the -- 8 MS. VALERIO: The counselors that are in 9 programming in the general population? 10 MR. MCFARLAND: The latter. 11 MS. VALERIO: Okay. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. Who would be the best 13 person -- the next panel, Mr. Maestas? Other shift 14 supervisors? 15 MS. ABEYTA: Tony Aguilar is in charge of 16 that. So -- 17 MR. MCFARLAND: But among those who came with 18 you today -- 19 MS. WORSHAM: I can answer some of those 20 questions, generally. 21 For the -- for different program pods -- for 22 example, for the drug and alcohol treatment 118 1 program -- those are licensed counselors through the 2 State of New Mexico. They hold a -- they are licensed 3 drug and alcohol counselors. 4 The counselors that are coming more from a 5 social work/counseling background are also licensed 6 through the State of New Mexico. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Licensed social workers? 8 MS. WORSHAM: Correct. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you know what 10 specific training they have to -- in the area of 11 corrections, and the needs of prisoners? 12 MS. WORSHAM: I am not positive. The 13 counselors that are more on the psychology side, they 14 are actually part of our contract group. So I don't 15 know -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 17 MS. WORSHAM: -- particularly what 18 training -- I know that they do get an orientation when 19 they come into the facility provided by CMS, a 20 self-study guide that is very comprehensive. Beyond 21 that, they attend our 40-hour in-service. We include 22 them in every training opportunity that we have 119 1 available. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Chief Torres, it looks like 3 you had something to add there. 4 MR. TORRES: Mr. Chairman, all I want to add 5 is I believe there may be some confusion as to what 6 counselors we're talking about. 7 We have classification specialists, which were 8 typically called, in other facilities, "case 9 management." What we've done, when we transferred into 10 the county, we combined those two job classifications, 11 and they now are all classification specialists, 12 cross-trained to be both case managers, as well as 13 classification specialists. But the job title itself 14 is "classification specialist." 15 Now, of course, that's separate of counselors 16 that are -- that provide mental health and medical 17 counseling from our contract with CMS, as well as 18 licensed counselors and social workers that work out of 19 the DWI and addictions treatment program, as well as 20 licensed social workers that work with our -- through 21 our volunteer and our programs contracts. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. 120 1 MR. TORRES: Does that help clarify that? 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you very much. I 3 appreciate that. 4 I wanted to ask Ms. Valerio what is the 5 profile, in your professional experience and training, 6 of an inmate who is at higher risk of becoming a sexual 7 assault victim? 8 MS. VALERIO: Primarily, I think, new to the 9 facility, never been in custody before, young, just 10 turning 18, young appearance, kind of a youthful 11 appearance. I don't know how to describe it. They 12 have a vibrant, youthful way about them, and they draw 13 attention to themselves. And it's not anything 14 intentional they're doing, it's just who they are. 15 But when you do their intake, or if they carry 16 themselves provocatively during an intake, just in a 17 conversation, you would be concerned that that's how 18 they're going to behave out in general population. 19 Size and sometimes gender can be a concern, if they are 20 working at changing their gender from male to female, 21 or female to male, can open them up to those kinds of 22 issues. 121 1 MR. MCFARLAND: How often do you run into 2 transgender inmates? 3 MS. VALERIO: I am new to corrections. I 4 hadn't done corrections before I started working in 5 January of 2007. So I have seen several. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, what else, what 7 other characteristics can you identify? 8 For example, is -- you said, "Acting 9 provocatively." What did you mean? 10 MS. VALERIO: Provocative behaviors, just in 11 the way you sit, and if -- and how you speak, your 12 dialect, and your positioning, and how you behave. 13 There are certain mannerisms that can be inviting, 14 whether you intend to be inviting, or those kinds of 15 things. And so you see that during an interview, and 16 you -- 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. 18 MS. VALERIO: -- be concerned for them. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Is -- do you ask during 20 the -- in the medical screening, the mental health 21 screening, anything about sexual preference or 22 orientation? 122 1 MS. VALERIO: No. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Why not? You think that's 3 relevant, in light of your comments about provocative, 4 and so forth? If a person is -- 5 MS. VALERIO: I think -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: -- might be described -- 7 MS. VALERIO: -- that's the person's choice. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: -- as flamboyantly gay in 9 mannerism, do you think that would be a higher risk 10 factor? 11 MS. VALERIO: Potentially, yes. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 13 MS. VALERIO: But it's not something that I 14 ask in any interview, in any capacity in which I work, 15 whether I'm being an emergency room nurse, being a 16 corrections nurse, being a SANE nurse. Those are not 17 questions that we ask. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And why is that, given your 19 previous answer, that it could be a factor, why 20 wouldn't you ask, "Hey, what is your sexual preference? 21 We're trying to house you here, and we've got sexual 22 predators that you" -- 123 1 MS. VALERIO: I think -- 2 MR. MCFARLAND: -- you know, "in general 3 population. So would you" -- 4 MS. VALERIO: In -- 5 MR. MCFARLAND: "Do you care to answer that 6 question?" 7 MS. VALERIO: I think if you put the question 8 appropriately, "curious about your sexual orientation, 9 based on some behaviors you have exhibited here, and we 10 would like to make sure that we keep you safe, is there 11 something that you would like to tell me," but 12 otherwise, that can be a violation of their privacy, 13 and something that they -- I should not make an 14 assumption, I should be able to ask. But that's not 15 something that you base your care on. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you received any 17 training, legal or otherwise, that tells you that it 18 would violate their privacy, assuming anybody has any 19 privacy in a jail, to ask their sexual preference or 20 orientation? 21 MS. VALERIO: As a manager, and as someone who 22 does hiring, and as a nurse, all of our training is 124 1 geared toward providing care, not based on your 2 orientation or your gender. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 4 MS. VALERIO: So I can't ask an employee that 5 I am interviewing, I can't -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: No, we're not talking about 7 employees. 8 MS. VALERIO: Well, right. So that's just 9 kind of in the same sense, when I'm working in the 10 emergency room I can't ask them those questions, unless 11 I need to lead it up to the next step of care. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Ms. Abeyta, do you ask about 13 sexual preference in classification? 14 MS. ABEYTA: No, Sir. But after reading a lot 15 of this information on PREA, I was going to also 16 suggest that to the PREA committee, that possibly, if 17 we could add that to classification, that would be 18 entering a whole new part in classification, and it 19 would be updating the database a little bit. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Just for what it's worth, I 21 would suggest that there wouldn't be any legal barrier 22 to asking that, and particularly if it is in the 125 1 furtherance of their safety, and the compelling 2 government interest of the security of the inmates and 3 of the institution. 4 Oh, let me ask you, Ms. Valerio, what is the 5 profile, in your experience, of someone who is more at 6 risk of being a sexual predator? 7 MS. VALERIO: Well, we -- I think that all of 8 us here are aware that sexual assault is not, 9 obviously, based on sex itself, but the control and the 10 power that you can exert over someone else. 11 So, I think aggressive crimes, domestic 12 violence crimes, crimes against children, long 13 sentencing -- I don't necessarily believe always a 14 bigger person is always a perpetrator, a -- so size, 15 for a perpetrator, is not always indicative for me. 16 But they demonstrate aggressive behaviors, 17 they will control -- they will attempt to control an 18 interview, they will attempt to control the questions 19 that we ask. They act out in aggressive manners that 20 would make you think that they are -- 21 MR. MCFARLAND: What about age? 22 MS. VALERIO: I think age, any more, is -- and 126 1 this is only my professional opinion -- dependent. 2 Generally, elderly folks are not going to be 3 perpetrators against, obviously, older, or anybody 4 equally the same size. 5 But -- and you wouldn't necessarily think 6 someone who is 18, but there are lots of more 7 aggressors that are younger. So age is dependent, 8 based on the other things that go with it. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What about gender? 10 MS. VALERIO: Women can be just as much a 11 perpetrator as men. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 13 MS. VALERIO: So gender, age, it's the same 14 thing. It's what can they control where they are, and 15 how they can manage to get those things. So women can 16 be quite the aggressors. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: What about sexual preference? 18 Is that something you would want to know about to 19 assess whether somebody is more likely than not to be a 20 predator? 21 MS. VALERIO: Because you're a sexual 22 predator, and you are a man, and you sexually assault 127 1 another man, it doesn't necessarily make you a 2 homosexual man. 3 So, preference, again, is going to be 4 dependent on -- it may, for me, be something I would be 5 more interested in in women, to some degree. But I 6 don't believe that preference necessarily makes you 7 more of an aggressor than not. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that something that you 9 would want your staff to ask about, if you -- in the 10 course of your screening? 11 MS. VALERIO: Well, when we gave you the 12 forms, we were talking about what was going -- what was 13 on the forms. And we don't necessarily do anything 14 with those two questions on the mental health screen. 15 But what we wanted to do was bring to the PREA 16 committee the idea that we would start bringing that 17 data forward, and ask what -- at least collect it, or 18 do something with it. And that was suggested -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: You're talking about -- 20 MS. VALERIO: -- over here, as well. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. You're talking 22 about questions 15 and 16 on CMS71-23, the mental 128 1 health screening form? 2 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So right now, the 4 answers to those questions really don't drive any 5 action? 6 MS. VALERIO: No. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: They don't really matter? 8 MS. VALERIO: Not necessarily, no. We don't 9 give that to the facility. That's part of something 10 that we do. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: I see, okay. So, if they have 12 answered -- their answers to 15 and 16 don't get to Ms. 13 Abeyta and her staff, is that correct? 14 MS. VALERIO: That's correct. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: And they don't get to anybody 16 else in the pods, or anybody in security? 17 MS. VALERIO: They may go to the counselors, 18 as they're referred to psych. They will get that 19 information. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, if someone -- but 21 if they're not referred to psych, then this is staying 22 in the file, and nobody else is going to see it? 129 1 MS. VALERIO: Right. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Does that give you any 3 concern? I mean, and Ms. Worsham, as the new head of 4 the PREA committee, is that something you would want to 5 rethink? 6 MS. WORSHAM: Absolutely. We have been 7 discussing a number of things that we can do to improve 8 our operations, and ensure that the information flows 9 from all of the different units and divisions within 10 the facility. And that's definitely something we will 11 be looking at, from a policy standpoint, as well as a 12 practice standpoint. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: You know, interestingly, 14 bringing up the legalities of things, having a question 15 that has been answered, that's probative, and nothing 16 is done with it, now there is a legal problem, not 17 asking a question. It is asking a question, getting an 18 answer, and not doing anything with it. 19 MS. WORSHAM: Right. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: But anyway, so we have asked 21 about predators. 22 Oh, Ms. Abeyta, let me ask you the same 130 1 question. In your experience, when you are doing the 2 classification, what is your understanding of the 3 profile of an inmate who is more likely to be at risk 4 of becoming a sexual assault predator, or -- 5 MS. ABEYTA: One of the main things I would be 6 concerned with is prison time. If the person has 7 served a long sentence of prison, they might have had 8 experiences in prison. And now that they're in the 9 county jail, try to, you know, express those 10 experiences again. 11 I would like to say a person with aggressive 12 charges, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, 13 murder, criminal sexual penetration, most of the time 14 on those cases we don't know if it's a male or a 15 female, unless we get access to the criminal complaint. 16 And at classification, we don't ask them who the victim 17 was. Those would be the first things I would look at. 18 So -- or a person who has been in and out of 19 the facility several times, that's another thing I 20 would assess as being a potential predator. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: What about sexual orientation? 22 MS. ABEYTA: Same thing as Ms. Valerio was 131 1 saying. I think it's more of a control factor. So I 2 don't feel sexual orientation would be an issue. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: You don't know whether it 4 would be? 5 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Would you want to ask 7 about -- I know you just said you don't currently ask, 8 but would you want to ask about who their victims were 9 in a sex offense? Would that be helpful to your 10 classification? 11 MS. ABEYTA: As long as we wouldn't be 12 jeopardizing any type of case, or anything like that, I 13 wouldn't mind asking an inmate who the possible victim 14 was. 15 We do now have access to the criminal 16 complaints, to read them for community custody 17 purposes, where we could read it. But at the same 18 time, I don't know if it's great to have everybody 19 reading a criminal complaint on somebody who, you know, 20 criminally sexually penetrated somebody. They do get 21 pretty graphic. 22 And sometimes they don't mention the victim, 132 1 they use initials if it's a child, or even an adult, to 2 protect that person's identity. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Isn't it true in -- well, are 4 you familiar with the New Mexico criminal law, as it 5 regards criminal sexual penetration? 6 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And isn't it true that 8 second degree sexual penetration can be either for a 9 minor, or it could be for somebody under custody? 10 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, as you say, just 12 seeing the charge is not going to tell you who the 13 victim was. 14 MS. ABEYTA: No, Sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: And is it your experience that 16 someone who is a child molester or has penetrated a 17 child is going to be at higher risk of becoming a 18 victim of sexual assault, if the word gets around in 19 general population, "This guy messed with a child?" Is 20 that person at a higher risk of getting assaulted, 21 hurt, including sexual assault? 22 MS. ABEYTA: I would say probably getting 133 1 physically assaulted, as far as getting in a physical 2 altercation, a fight. As far as being sexually 3 assaulted, I want to say no. But I have never come 4 across any -- in my experience, haven't come across any 5 instance of that happening. 6 I know there have been times when people have 7 signed out of protective custody and gone to general 8 population, and other inmates have seen their criminal 9 complaint, or their discovery that their attorney has 10 given them, and they found out what the person was 11 there for, and they did get assaulted. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you, in filling out this 13 form, do you have access or routinely ask for access to 14 the criminal file? 15 MS. ABEYTA: No, Sir. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well then, how do you 17 answer the question -- fill out the section on other 18 charges: "Does inmate have a co-defendant?" 19 MS. ABEYTA: Oh, sorry. We ask the inmate 20 that, if they have a co-defendant in custody. We are 21 taking their word for it, that they have a 22 co-defendant. 134 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Merciful heaven. 2 MS. ABEYTA: If necessary, we run an 3 Albuquerque criminal police report on the person, to 4 see what their previous charge was for. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: When is it necessary? 6 MS. ABEYTA: Every classification is 7 necessary. And in some occasions, if the person 8 doesn't have an Albuquerque criminal police report, we 9 can run a national background check. Three of our 10 classification specialists are certified to run them, 11 if necessary. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And I am just trying to figure 13 out when it's necessary. So this is discretionary 14 among your staff. 15 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 17 MS. ABEYTA: If we can't get an Albuquerque 18 police report on the person, we will run a national 19 background check. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Why do you want to know, in 21 classification, whether a -- the inmate has a co- 22 defendant, and whether the co-defendant is in custody? 135 1 Why is that relevant? 2 MS. ABEYTA: Because co-defendants cannot be 3 in the same pod. It's a conflict, I guess, amongst the 4 case. Most of the time, if they don't tell us at 5 classification, the district attorney's office or an 6 attorney will contact us, letting us know that two co- 7 defendants are in the same pod together, and we have to 8 remove one of them, because it's a conflict in the 9 case. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. They can compare notes, 11 right? 12 MS. ABEYTA: Exactly, compare notes and stuff. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: They also might not be the 14 best of friends any more, and -- if they ever 15 were -- and they could be dangerous to one another. 16 Isn't that true? 17 MS. ABEYTA: Exactly. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: They also could still be 19 friends, and want to do some business within the 20 prison. 21 MS. ABEYTA: Correct. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Within the MDC. So, if it's 136 1 the latter, does it give you any concern that you're 2 going to rely on the honesty of the inmate as to -- for 3 him to fess up that he has got a co-defendant who is in 4 custody, and he would love to be put in the same pod 5 with him? 6 MS. ABEYTA: Yes. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Doesn't that seem kind of like 8 a stretch? 9 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. It does seem like a 10 stretch. And I think that's another instance that we 11 can bring forth to the PREA committee, and possible 12 changes to the policy, maybe giving us more access to 13 getting co-defendant information. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And maybe having the criminal 15 file routinely reviewed. 16 MS. ABEYTA: That would be a good idea, as 17 well. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: It doesn't mean you have to 19 publish it in front of all 2,700 inmates. 20 MS. ABEYTA: Oh, no. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: But when you're classifying 22 risk -- 137 1 MS. ABEYTA: Yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Let's go back to the -- where 3 the new admitees are in seg eight. So, if the 4 individual -- if an individual -- let me back up. 5 I think Ms. Valerio just said that answers to 6 15 and 16 don't get passed on, right? Is that correct, 7 Ms. Valerio? 8 MS. VALERIO: That's correct. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And so, unless the person 10 volunteers that they are either a predator or a sexual 11 assault victim, they can, during the 48 hours that 12 they're waiting for classification, they can be in seg 13 eight with others of all kinds of levels of risk. Is 14 that correct? 15 MS. ABEYTA: That's correct. If necessary, 16 they can -- we have -- classification goes in there 17 seven days a week. If they feel that they're unsafe, 18 they can approach one of them and tell them, "I have a 19 problem," and we will address it. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, Ms. Valerio, when 21 you're screening, do you ask -- and forgive me if you 22 have already answered this -- do you ask whether they 138 1 -- there is some reason why they want to be put into 2 protective custody? 3 MS. VALERIO: No. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So what I'm getting at 5 is when I was in there -- and I understand, as Chief 6 Torres mentioned, that I was probably in there at the 7 spike of the population, you had your state fair there, 8 and a lot of folks inebriated, and they're all waiting 9 to be classified, and it was pretty crowded in seg 10 eight -- there were 60 boats, 60 beds, lying on the 11 little plastic platforms, just in the day room, not to 12 mention all the cells, two tiers, not to mention the 13 guys who were in rec area. It was pretty crowded. 14 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: You had a couple of COs, you 16 have one camera that is able to tilt and move and zoom. 17 But am I understanding correctly that it is possible 18 that somebody, regardless of what they said in the 19 medical intake, unless they volunteer and say something 20 about their sexual assault vulnerability or predation, 21 they might be in, lying six inches away from somebody 22 who is in there for urinating in public at the state 139 1 fair, they might be lying right there in the day room 2 in seg eight for as 48 hours before they ever get 3 classified and are asked any question about such as 4 we've been talking about? 5 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. That's correct. 6 MR. TORRES: It should be noted that our 7 booking staff, our processing officer, is trained that 8 we are to place felons in rooms while misdemeanants are 9 to be kept out in the day room. So the individuals 10 that you would see in the day room would be 11 misdemeanants. 12 We do make an attempt to separate felons from 13 misdemeanors. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. 15 MR. TORRES: I would like to clarify that. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. Ms. Abeyta, when I 17 was there in your facility, I believe Chief Torres 18 mentioned to me that his biggest challenge was 19 classification, due to limited space. We also talked 20 about, you know, the length of stay, and things that 21 the first panel talked about. 22 Do you -- are your options somewhat limited, 140 1 because you're at 122 percent of capacity? Does that 2 kind of play a significant role in how you classify, 3 and where these folks are going to get housed? 4 MS. ABEYTA: No. In -- if you -- in the final 5 score, when you classify the assessment, if the inmate 6 scores a low-level score, which is anywhere 7 between -- under 40 points, they can go to general 8 population, misdemeanor pods. We have five in E unit, 9 and we have four in D unit for the males. And for the 10 females we have two in D unit. 11 For the felonies, we have the low-level 12 felonies, which is your medium-level security point 13 rating. Those have five units to go to, as well. And 14 then the maximum general population, which is three for 15 under four years' prison time, four to seven years 16 prison time has one pod, and anything over eight years 17 has one pod, as well. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And how many of those -- when 19 we're talking about pods, are they all double-celled? 20 MS. ABEYTA: It's -- 21 MR. MCFARLAND: It's not -- 22 MS. ABEYTA: Like two occupants per a room? 141 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 2 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. Well, three is what we 3 have in -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Are they triple-celled or 5 double-celled? 6 MR. TORRES: They're designed double, 7 they're -- many of the cells have triple -- 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Could you hear that? Why 9 don't -- 10 MS. WORSHAM: They're designed double, and 11 many of the cells have triple occupancy. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Chief Torres just volunteered 13 that information. Thank you. 14 Any of you, if I told you that someone was 15 sexually assaulted last night in MDC, and I didn't tell 16 you where, where would be the first place you would 17 look? I mean, you know this place. Where do you think 18 a predator would be most likely to try to pull off such 19 a thing, if -- in this facility? Where are the 20 high-risk areas? 21 I will start with you, Ms. Valerio. If you 22 need more time to think about it, I will start with Ms. 142 1 Worsham. 2 MS. VALERIO: I don't know that I can answer 3 that question. I consider each area high risk for its 4 own -- how they are -- Echo unit, they're young, there 5 is more, there are misdemeanors, felonies. So for me, 6 it's different. I couldn't say -- 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, what about the 8 infirmary? Where is the most vulnerable place in the 9 infirmary? 10 MS. VALERIO: In the infirmary in the medical 11 housing unit, or in the area where there are the exam 12 rooms? 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Exam rooms. 14 MS. VALERIO: An exam room. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Are there any drapes on 16 the windows to the doors? 17 MS. VALERIO: They will cover the door if we 18 are doing an EKG, or if Kim Janestski, the nurse 19 practitioner, is doing a female exam. Any time there 20 is a body part exposed, we cover the window. But there 21 should be a stand-by present at all times. 22 So, not only is the provider with the patient, 143 1 but there is someone else in the room to support the 2 patient and the provider. So we are not alone with 3 them. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. But the individual who 5 was banned from MDC for inappropriate touching of 6 female inmates during exams was alone. So is this a 7 new policy, new practice? 8 MS. VALERIO: It's my practice. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So no female inmate 10 gets examined alone, is that correct? 11 MS. VALERIO: No male or female inmate gets 12 examined alone. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. The door is closed, 14 but there is somebody else in there with them? 15 MS. VALERIO: Yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. Ms. Abeyta, where do 17 you think -- do you have a familiarity enough with the 18 facility and the layout and scuttlebutt from staff as 19 to where are the low visibility -- you've got a lot of 20 cameras in MDC, over 300 cameras. 21 MS. ABEYTA: Yes, Sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: It's very impressive, but 144 1 where are -- it's a big 12 acres under the roof. So -- 2 MS. ABEYTA: I'm still trying to think of a 3 location. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, all right. 5 MS. ABEYTA: Sorry, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Ms. Worsham? 7 MS. WORSHAM: Well, I think in any facility 8 the areas are fairly common. Although, I think because 9 of our direct supervision facility, we have less 10 opportunity, because we have line of sight. 11 But data from numerous studies would show that 12 in celled areas would be an area for opportunity. Any 13 area out of staff supervision would be an area for 14 opportunity. 15 I don't know that I can specifically say any 16 one spot in our facility that is not unique, or that is 17 unique to our facility -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 19 MS. WORSHAM: -- and is not shared with 20 others. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, I want to thank 22 each of you for your testimony and for coming out here. 145 1 We may have some follow-up questions, but for now thank 2 you very much. 3 MS. VALERIO: Thank you. 4 MS. ABEYTA: Thank you. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: At this time, we're going to 6 call up Frank Maestas and Pat Cordova, please. 7 (Pause.) 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Gentlemen, would you please 9 raise your right hand? 10 Whereupon, 11 PAT CORDOVA and FRANK MAESTAS 12 were called as witnesses and, having been 13 first duly sworn, were examined and testified as 14 follows: 15 EXAMINATION 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Cordova, your full name 17 and your title at MDC? 18 MR. CORDOVA: Patrick Cordova, captain. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And, Captain, how long have 20 you been at MDC? 21 MR. CORDOVA: Just over 22 years. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: You've been in corrections for 146 1 22 years? 2 MR. CORDOVA: Yes, Sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. How long have you been 4 at the MDC facility? 5 MR. CORDOVA: Since it opened. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: In -- 7 MR. CORDOVA: 2002, 2003, I can't remember. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: 2002, yes. So you were there 9 when the city was running it, as well as now? 10 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you are the captain 12 over which unit? 13 MR. CORDOVA: Echo unit, E unit. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Good morning, Cpt. 15 Maestas. 16 MR. MAESTAS: Good morning. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Your full name, please? 18 MR. MAESTAS: Frank Maestas, captain of 19 segregation. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And how long have you been at 21 MDC? 22 MR. MAESTAS: Twelve years. 147 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you've been in 2 corrections for 12 years. 3 MR. MAESTAS: Twelve, yes, so -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: You've been at MDC since it 5 opened? 6 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So you were -- like 8 Cpt. Cordova, you opened the place under the city? 9 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. I want to thank both of 11 you for your -- allowing me the inspection. And I know 12 it's a pain in the neck. You had a lot of lawyers 13 running around there, and auditors, and monitors, and 14 volunteers, and do-gooders. I appreciate very much 15 your putting up with yet another one. 16 What are the ways that an inmate in your 17 facility can report an alleged sexual assault, Cpt. 18 Cordova? 19 MR. CORDOVA: First staff member available 20 would probably be the line officer, so that would be 21 the first person an inmate could report to. And then 22 up the chain of command, sergeant or lieutenant that's 148 1 assigned that moves about the units. And then the unit 2 captain also is available. 3 But there are numerous staff that they could 4 approach, as far as support staff, medical, stuff like 5 that. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: So the nurses that come 7 through, med pass? 8 MR. CORDOVA: There is a lot of activity, a 9 lot of people in and out of the pods, providing 10 services. And so any one of those folks could be 11 approached to report such a thing, yes. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: In your tenure there, has that 13 ever happened? Has anybody ever -- any inmate ever 14 communicated to any support staff that they had been 15 sexually assaulted? 16 MR. CORDOVA: Not while I have been a 17 captain -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 19 MR. CORDOVA: -- that I can recall, no. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And same question with respect 21 to any of your correctional officers. 22 MR. CORDOVA: Not that I know of, no. 149 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So none of them have 2 ever come up to you and said, "I got this kite," or, "I 3 heard this rumor," or, "So-and-so confided in me -- is 4 accusing so-and-so of rape?" 5 MR. CORDOVA: No, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And the E unit, what 7 risk level of inmate do you have in there? 8 MR. CORDOVA: Five of the pods are 9 misdemeanants, for the most part. One and two are 10 misdemeanor males. Three and four are both mixed 11 classification somewhat, because of the charter school, 12 but they have been classified to those areas to 13 participate in the charter school. 14 Pod five is also a misdemeanor pod; six, 15 seven, and eight are all felony pods, and they range 16 from -- six is normally younger felons who have done 17 very little, if any, prison time -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Dealer felons, did you say? 19 MR. CORDOVA: Pardon me? 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you say newer or dealer? 21 MR. CORDOVA: New felons. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: New felons, I'm sorry. 150 1 MR. CORDOVA: Younger -- 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 3 MR. CORDOVA: For the most part, they're 4 younger. Seven and eight, they have -- seven 5 have -- they're felons, have done some prison time, and 6 eight has done several years of prison time. 7 MS. CHUNN: Mr. Cordova -- Captain, sorry, 8 Captain -- 9 MR. CORDOVA: That's fine. 10 MS. CHUNN: Do you have any say over who comes 11 into that unit? I know classification has done their 12 work. But after they have been there for a few days, 13 do you have any say over whether or not they stay? 14 MR. CORDOVA: Yes, I do. Not just myself, as 15 a unit captain, but that information -- information can 16 be relayed from an officer who has concerns to the unit 17 supervisor, the sergeant or lieutenant assigned, and 18 they can communicate that information to the 19 appropriate folks, whether it be a PSU or a regular 20 classification, and they are always willing to work 21 with us to figure out where another area would be more 22 appropriate for those folks. 151 1 MS. CHUNN: What kind of guidance do you give 2 your staff, the people who are working under you, about 3 observation of detainee behavior, that kind of thing? 4 MR. CORDOVA: First off, I would strongly 5 suggest that they're very mobile. So, I mean, with the 6 surveillance systems we have, and the direct 7 supervision facility that we have, there are still, 8 obviously, blank spots. So they need to be on their 9 feet and moving around, and that's going to prevent a 10 lot of different types of assaults from happening. 11 So, being mobile, and also being approachable. 12 They have to be able to provide services to the 13 inmates. If they have questions, they should be able 14 to answer them. They shouldn't just say, you know, "I 15 don't have time," that kind of thing. They should be 16 able to approach them with any concern they may have, 17 as well as the line supervisors who are required to be 18 in the pods, and get a feel for what's going on with 19 the inmates and the officers. 20 So, that communication network has to be 21 there, and all the way up to me. Obviously, I need to 22 know what's going on in my unit, so if I have concerns 152 1 I can address those concerns. 2 MS. CHUNN: And what guidance do you give 3 those employees about handling problem detainees? 4 MR. CORDOVA: Problems, as far as? 5 MS. CHUNN: Behavior, needs that they may 6 have, complaints that they may lodge -- 7 MR. CORDOVA: If they feel like they can't 8 handle those certain complaints, or those behaviors, I 9 mean, I'm very confident in my staff, first off, 10 because I rarely have to go in there and deal with it 11 myself. But -- you know, with the training they have 12 had, and the experience, for the most part. 13 But if they have issues or concerns about 14 handling a certain situation, they need to be able to 15 go to their sergeant or lieutenant, and myself, if 16 needed. 17 So, you know, I feel, in my units -- you know, 18 I'm speaking for my own unit, and I think it's across 19 the board -- but I think we run a pretty tight ship, 20 and all of us are very accessible and approachable, for 21 any reason. 22 MS. CHUNN: What is the interface between your 153 1 unit and other components of the facility? 2 I mean, culinary, your medical staff, 3 including clinical staff, volunteers, contractors, that 4 kind of thing. 5 MR. CORDOVA: What relationship? 6 MS. CHUNN: The interface, yes. 7 MR. CORDOVA: Constant -- 8 MS. CHUNN: I mean what dealings do you have 9 with them, and they with you? 10 MR. CORDOVA: Constantly, on a daily basis. 11 If they have any concerns -- I mean, I get called all 12 the time for little things, big things, if need be. 13 But it's a daily basis. There is communication across 14 the board throughout the facility with all employees, I 15 think. 16 MS. CHUNN: And what is the communication flow 17 like among these entities and your unit? 18 MR. CORDOVA: Very fluid, I think. I have a 19 good relationship with all the folks that I work with. 20 You know, Kim Valerio and I talk a lot about, you know, 21 getting people processed through medical on a timely 22 basis. 154 1 PSU staff, you know, we all know each other 2 pretty well. So if they have concerns, they know that 3 they can come to us immediately, and that the 4 situations are handled immediately. Or, if they even 5 have questions about stuff related to security that 6 they're not sure about, they are always coming to the 7 captains and getting that information that they need. 8 So I think it's a very fluid flow of communication. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: A question to both of you. 10 Can you just fill out, or finish your answer to my 11 original question about what are the ways that someone 12 could report -- an inmate could report sexual assault? 13 You mentioned, obviously, any of the 14 correctional officers, any of the -- you know, the line 15 officers, as well as sergeants, lieutenants. 16 The -- any of the support staff, the nurses? What are 17 other ways that this -- either of you just chime in. 18 MR. MAESTAS: They could report it through our 19 church volunteers. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 21 MR. MAESTAS: Any volunteer that comes in 22 during a visit, when they're -- over the phones. 155 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Are the phone monitored? 2 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. But they could still 4 say something. 5 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 7 MR. MAESTAS: And then also we have boxes that 8 are inside our housing units for the case workers and 9 -- we have boxes inside each unit, where medical or 10 medical and PSU go through. And so they can put a note 11 inside the -- one of those boxes in there, and then it 12 gets relayed back to us. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Who cleans out those boxes? 14 MR. MAESTAS: The PSU staff, and then the law 15 library. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 17 MR. CORDOVA: And another one I can add is 18 also the grievance procedure. Grievance officers go to 19 the pods daily, and they provide, you know, the forms 20 to be completed, and then they are forwarded to the 21 unit supervisors. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: What do you have to do to get 156 1 a grievance form, and who do you get it from? The 2 policies are all over the map. Some say you get them 3 from one person and some from another. What is the 4 actual practice? 5 MR. CORDOVA: We actually have a grievance 6 person assigned to the units, a specific person. So 7 they go to the pods daily. The inmates know who that 8 person is, and they approach -- 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, do they go daily, or do 10 they go twice a week? 11 MR. CORDOVA: Well, it's Monday through 12 Friday. I'm not sure if it's every single day now or 13 not. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Your policy says that these 15 grievance officers go twice a week, and the grievances 16 have to be -- well, is that correct? 17 MR. CORDOVA: Okay. They are five days a 18 week, but in different pods. So it's -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. 20 MR. CORDOVA: -- probably the two days per 21 pod. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, all right. And do you 157 1 have -- does the inmate have to tell the grievance 2 officer why he wants the form? 3 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: What if it's a sensitive 5 matter? Is he going to get a form? 6 MR. MAESTAS: Mm-hmm. Yes, Sir. Depending 7 on -- let's say, for a sensitive form (sic), they can 8 fill out a request form also. A grievance -- on the 9 grievance form -- I think that's one right there. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Is yes, this the -- it's 11 entitled -- it's a half-sheet inmate request 12 information form, and it's a triplicate half-sheet, 13 MDC-4 revised 1/13/2005. 14 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: That's not a grievance form, 16 right? This is -- 17 MR. MAESTAS: No. That's a request. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 19 MR. MAESTAS: Speaking as a captain, I -- in 20 segregation, those are the forms I mainly get. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 22 MR. MAESTAS: They are requests for attorney 158 1 phone calls, just to speak with the captain, their 2 condition, why they're inside, sick -- 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 4 MR. MAESTAS: So that's usually what I get, 5 right there. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, we will come back 7 to how this is used. But let's just finish up on 8 grievance forms. 9 So, twice a week an inmate has an opportunity 10 to ask for a form. Is that correct? 11 MR. MAESTAS: Mm-hmm. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: You have to verbally respond. 13 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that a yes? 15 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, isn't it true that 17 a grievance has to be submitted within five days, or 18 it's considered untimely? 19 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, a person comes in 21 -- the grievance officer comes in Thursday morning at 22 10:00. Something happens Thursday morning at 11:00, 159 1 and you're not going to see -- you're not even going to 2 be able to get a form until maybe the following Monday 3 night, Tuesday, whenever, the next time that person 4 comes in. 5 Is that right? In other words, it might be 6 tough to even get the form within five days, let alone 7 fill it out and turn it in? 8 MR. MAESTAS: What happens is the case 9 manager, the grievance personnel, they will sit there 10 while the inmate fills out the grievance, and it's up 11 to them to put it -- say it's a grievable 12 issue -- because, in the past, what was happening is 13 they were just handing out the grievances to the 14 inmates, and they were just filling them out and we 15 were spending -- you would spend two days just on, "How 16 come we don't get two scoops of Rice Krispies," you 17 know? 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 19 MR. MAESTAS: So that's why we went to where 20 the case -- or the grievance personnel sit there, and 21 they will determine -- they make the determination as 22 to if it's a grievable issue or not, and then they 160 1 forward it, they scan it, and then they forward it to 2 the unit captain it pertains to. It could be the 3 captain, medical, food service, depending on the area. 4 MS. CHUNN: Do they make that determination 5 before the form is filled out? 6 MR. MAESTAS: No, no, no. As they are filling 7 it -- 8 MS. CHUNN: It has to be filled out first? 9 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 10 MS. CHUNN: And then they look at it and read 11 it and say, "This isn't grievable," or, "It is 12 grievable." 13 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Ma'am. 14 MS. CHUNN: Now, after the individual asks for 15 the grievance form and fills it out, does he or she get 16 a copy of that grievance? 17 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. They will receive the 18 pink copy. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry, we're not talking 20 about this one. 21 MR. MAESTAS: It's the same type of -- 22 MR. MCFARLAND: The same type. So it's a 161 1 triplicate? 2 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And so he has proof. You're 4 protecting your staff in this way -- 5 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: He has proof that he turned 7 in -- did or didn't turn in a grievance. 8 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 10 MR. MAESTAS: And then, also on those forms, 11 they are numbered. And they are stamped when they get 12 received, everything gets scanned. So there is no 13 question about -- 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Stuff can't get accidentally 15 on purpose lost. 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. That's smart. 18 MS. CHUNN: Does the handbook list grievable 19 issues? Because I am wondering now, could I be a 20 grievance officer? 21 You fill a form out, I read it, say it's 22 grievable, and then, on the way out, I throw the rest 162 1 of it in the trash can. 2 MR. MAESTAS: As far as -- inside of our 3 policy -- in the inmate handbook it does -- 4 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 5 MR. MAESTAS: Now that we revised it, it shows 6 the -- because that's -- like I say, we're going to 7 that old style of grievance, we're just -- the 8 abundance of grievances that we were receiving were 9 enormous. 10 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 11 MR. MAESTAS: But now it's inside our policy. 12 It's in the handbook, stating that these are the 13 grievable issues and non-grievable issues. 14 MS. CHUNN: But as grievance officer, I could 15 tell you that it is not a grievable issue, when in 16 fact, it is. Right? 17 MR. MAESTAS: At this point, yes, because we 18 don't have the -- 19 MS. CHUNN: At this point, now. 20 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, yes. 21 MS. CHUNN: But with the new handbook that's 22 coming out, that will give the detainee a list of what 163 1 really is, independent of what the grievance officer 2 may say, right? 3 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Ma'am. 4 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 5 MS. CHUNN: Thank you. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Would it surprise you, Cpt. 7 Maestas, if I said that all of the inmates in my brief 8 visit into seg said they were clueless about a 9 handbook, they hadn't seen, read, or been given one? 10 Does that surprise you, or is that -- 11 MR. MAESTAS: No. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. They don't 13 get -- presently, they don't get a handbook when they 14 arrive in -- 15 MR. MAESTAS: The new intakes, as far as my 16 seg eights and from the new intake area -- but my 17 inmates in three and four, they have been there -- they 18 are my long-term inmates -- have received -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. 20 MR. MAESTAS: -- an inmate handbook. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. But the new fish that 22 come in on seg eight, they don't get one? 164 1 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And would you like 3 them -- would you like everybody in seg to have a 4 handbook from day one? 5 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: It would make your life 7 easier, wouldn't it? 8 MR. MAESTAS: Make it easier, and it starts 9 from the booking process. So once we get the inmate 10 handbook coming in through the booking process, they 11 take it with them from point A to point B. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: How does this inmate request 13 information form half-sheet -- how does this work? You 14 can -- 15 MR. MAESTAS: Through the -- again, through 16 the grievance personnel that comes in. That's what I 17 was saying about with the -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Well -- 19 MR. MAESTAS: They can request -- they can 20 actually request a grievance, they want to file a 21 grievance, or they will take requests -- and usually 22 it's directed to myself, the law librarian -- and they 165 1 will walk them to them. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. Where does 3 someone -- where does an inmate get this form? 4 MR. MAESTAS: They can receive those from the 5 officer on -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 7 MR. MAESTAS: -- on duty. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: And do they have to tell the 9 officer why they want it? 10 MR. MAESTAS: No, Sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So if they didn't get 12 two scoops of Rice Krispies, they can -- 13 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: -- get one of these. All 15 right. 16 And so, they sign it, they hand it, and 17 you're -- who is supposed to countersign it? 18 MR. MAESTAS: The case manager that they're 19 assigned -- like in my area, I have two case managers 20 that go in and talk to the inmates. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 22 MR. MAESTAS: And that's who they will -- they 166 1 will either give it to the grievance personnel or the 2 case manager. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And then will the case manager 4 give the inmate the pink? 5 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. So the inmate has a 7 record that he turned something in or didn't turn 8 something in? 9 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. So, even if the 11 white and yellow gets "lost," he can come back and say, 12 "Hey, whatever happened to my Rice Krispy complaint?" 13 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Or, "my sexual assault 15 complaint?" 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: So your people are protected? 18 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: That's smart. 20 MS. CHUNN: One last clarification. The case 21 managers now also do classification. Is that true? Or 22 are they two separate positions? 167 1 MR. MAESTAS: In my area, I have got a 2 classification officer that's in there -- I have, 3 actually, two of them that -- he will do -- he sits on 4 the -- for reclasses. And -- because I will get M-8s 5 that get moved from the rest of the units prior 6 to -- they're already classified. 7 So, he will go in and hear the inmates, as far 8 as the classification, reclass, why they got moved, who 9 are -- that's where we get more information, as far as 10 the keep-away list, because prior to them going back 11 into general population, they will sit down and 12 interview them again. They will actually go to them, 13 "Okay, we're going to move you to Echo three, four, or 14 five," and "You have any enemies in there?" And that's 15 how we will determine it. 16 MS. CHUNN: So, in effect, it's a review 17 function, if there have been issues that need to be 18 adjusted? 19 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Ma'am. 20 MS. CHUNN: Thank you. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, do your folks, your line 22 officers, get any information about who might be 168 1 someone that they need to keep an eye out for? 2 Remember the -- you heard the earlier testimony about, 3 "Well, we try to communicate with a unit manager, and 4 the classification" -- 5 MR. MAESTAS: Yes -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: -- "specialist." 7 MR. MAESTAS: Oh, I'm sorry. A majority of my 8 inmates that I get from other housing are there for 9 disciplinary -- are going through disciplinary 10 pre-hearing, or for reclass. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: So they're all -- you got to 12 keep an eye on everybody in seg. 13 MR. MAESTAS: Everybody that comes through 14 is -- 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Right, sure. 16 MR. MAESTAS: And when we take them in for 17 reclass, we will make sure that they're not in the same 18 pod, as to why they got moved from the other units. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, I'm sorry. I'm not 20 talking about reclass. I'm talking about a new 21 admitee. 22 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, a new -- if -- somebody 169 1 coming in from booking, if it's a high-profile case, if 2 it is -- especially CSP inmates -- 3 MR. MCFARLAND: CSP? 4 MR. MAESTAS: Criminal sexual penetration. We 5 will house them completely separate from the -- they 6 still go seg eight, but we will make room for that 7 inmate. I have to single-cell them, or I will move 8 them to our protective custody unit to house them 9 there, seg three, seg four. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, aren't you pretty 11 crowded in seg eight? Where are you going to 12 single-cell somebody? 13 MR. MAESTAS: We will make room. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Just put out some more boats 15 in the day room, right? 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: In answer to our various 18 questions, the facility was good enough to give us a 19 long list of ways that an inmate could report in 2007. 20 So, let me just read the list, and if you 21 disagree or you want to add something to the list, 22 rather than testing your memory, I'm just going to read 170 1 you the list, and you tell me if that's not the case. 2 Is that all right? Okay. 3 In answer to the question, "directly to any 4 staff member, supervisor, or manager," and you already 5 testified to that. "Directly to any medical staff," 6 "Directly to any medical -- mental health staff 7 member," "Directly to contract staff and volunteers." 8 You're nodding your head here, but I'm -- just stop me 9 if you have a comment on any of these. 10 "Indirect reporting through another inmate." 11 Is that likely? 12 MR. CORDOVA: Not likely, but I guess it could 13 happen. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Probably not going to have too 15 many felons who are going to say, "Do me a favor, and 16 tell the sarge that I was raped twice last night." 17 MR. CORDOVA: Probably not. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Probably not. 19 MR. CORDOVA: Indirect reporting through 20 family? 21 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: "Indirect through personal 171 1 legal counsel?" Do these folks have legal counsel? I 2 mean, these are public defenders they meet five minutes 3 before they plead. 4 MR. MAESTAS: No, we have their own personal 5 paid attorneys that come in. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And we're not talking 7 about the McClendon monitors -- 8 MR. MAESTAS: No. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: -- and all the class action 10 folks. 11 MR. MAESTAS: No. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. "Directly to attorneys 13 and paralegals who represent plaintiffs in the 14 McClendon lawsuit?" They're frequently in your 15 facility, is that right? 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. And do they come into 18 seg? 19 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Do they come into your 21 facility, Cpt. Cordova, your unit? 22 MR. CORDOVA: Not as often as seg, yes, but 172 1 they do go in there. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Why do they go into yours more 3 often? 4 MR. MAESTAS: I have subclass members, which 5 are issues with the mentally ill. So that's how -- why 6 they're in mine. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: I think I met one of them, 8 didn't I? 9 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, you did. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, I did. "Filing a 11 grievance." "Writing a letter to the chief of deputy 12 chiefs." How do the letters differ from these 13 information -- 14 MR. MAESTAS: That's their own personal, that 15 they will -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. 17 MR. MAESTAS: Regular mail, outgoing mail. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: So they can say, "Mr. Torres," 19 and nobody else is going to read it, it's going to go 20 directly to him? Okay. Was that a yes? 21 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. "Directly through a 173 1 request for services." Is that the same as an inmate 2 request information form? 3 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And, "Directly through 5 sick call procedure?" Is that a separate form, or is 6 -- how does that work? 7 MR. MAESTAS: Prior to the new procedures for 8 sick call, they used to drop sick call inside those 9 little boxes I was talking about. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: I see. 11 MR. MAESTAS: Now they actually have a sick 12 call nurse that goes out there, so -- 13 MR. MCFARLAND: I see. What did I miss? Go 14 right ahead. 15 MS. CHUNN: "Directly to facility compliance 16 auditors appointed by the court." 17 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Are there any other ways -- do 19 you have a hotline in -- where -- a telephone that can 20 go directly to anybody, either inside or outside the 21 facility to report a crime, an assault, or including a 22 rape? 174 1 MR. MAESTAS: We don't necessarily have an 2 officer phone, but we don't have a direct line that's 3 sent out that -- we have phones on -- in every unit. 4 Again, through the request form, even if they request 5 to make a phone call to their attorney, they can -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Sure. 7 MR. MAESTAS: -- make those calls -- 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 9 MR. MAESTAS: -- or to their mom, or -- I 10 mean, visiting is one of the high -- you know, 11 communication would be through visiting. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And how often -- how much 13 visitation is there in seg? 14 MR. MAESTAS: There -- they run just like the 15 general public -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that right? 17 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And how often is that? 19 MR. MAESTAS: We get it twice a week. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: For an hour? 21 MR. MAESTAS: For an hour. Or it's half-hour 22 for the first day, a half-hour for the second day. 175 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 2 MR. MAESTAS: So an hour, total. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: I take it nobody has conjugal 4 visits in MDC. 5 MR. MAESTAS: No, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Oh, well, do you see 7 any problem with having a tip line? Having a -- you 8 know, and advertising it on the pod, that you can leave 9 a recorded message about criminal activity, including 10 sexual assault, staff-on-inmate or inmate-on-inmate, 11 dialing this number, and it will be confidential, and 12 it goes directly to a prosecutor, it goes directly to 13 internal affairs, or it goes directly to Bernalillo 14 County sheriff. 15 Do you see any problem with that? I mean, 16 would that -- 17 MR. CORDOVA: I think that would be a good 18 idea, it's something we can suggest to the PREA review 19 committee, also. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: How about in seg? I know 21 that's -- 22 MR. MAESTAS: Right, I think that would be a 176 1 good thing. Anything that is going to benefit the 2 department and advance us forward would be good. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. A lot of jails that we 4 talk to are doing that. That's something -- 5 MR. MAESTAS: One good thing, like 6 with -- like Cpt. Cordova had mentioned earlier, is the 7 communication that we have with our staff and our 8 supervisors within -- talking to the inmates, 9 especially in segregation. That is a very good 10 benefit. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Can we talk about strip 12 searches and pat downs? What is the criteria, if any, 13 for when you conduct a pat down, and when you conduct a 14 strip search? 15 MR. CORDOVA: Pat searches can be conducted at 16 any time, when they're coming and going from -- in and 17 out of the pod, random -- you know, they're walking 18 down the hallway, we have unescorted movements. So, 19 you know, it's not uncommon for an officer to stop an 20 inmate just randomly and say, "I need to search you," 21 and then stuff is found. 22 You suspect that maybe they have something on 177 1 them, they're in a room and obviously they are acting a 2 little suspicious. But pretty much at any time, it's 3 an officer's discretion. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: So you're not worried about 5 any privacy rights in that regard, right? 6 MR. CORDOVA: Well, if it's going to be a pat 7 search, it can be done -- I mean, it's a -- 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 9 MR. CORDOVA: Obviously, there is more inmates 10 around, and it's going to be done in front of those 11 folks. 12 But when it becomes an unclothed search, 13 that's different, obviously. You're going to have to 14 have -- you know, if it's an officer requesting one, 15 you have to have a supervisor's approval, and then 16 there is criteria that has to be met. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Let's talk about that 18 criteria. I was provided a print-out of a couple of 19 actual documents, MDC-23s. These? 20 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Have you ever seen these 22 before? 178 1 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And this is a series of 3 boxes that gets checked. How does this work? What's 4 your understanding, Cpt. Cordova? 5 MR. CORDOVA: That form was primarily used on 6 the intake process. I mean, it can be used at any 7 time. Obviously, it will be used if there is going to 8 be a strip search conducted. 9 But more often in the booking area as they're 10 coming in, say the officer is conducting a pat search 11 and they find some type of contraband on the inmate, 12 that's obviously one of the criteria that is -- that 13 person has met. 14 And then, if you look at maybe the charges 15 that he or she is being brought in on, it might be 16 drug-related, so that's a second criteria that's been 17 met, and then -- you know, and obviously, others. 18 Past history in the department, bringing in 19 contraband to the facility on previous occasions, those 20 types of criteria would justify a strip search being 21 conducted with, you know, obviously, more than one 22 staff member. 179 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, the -- am I reading this 2 correctly, that it -- you can only do a clothing 3 search, or in other words, a pat down, unless two or 4 more of these boxes are checked? Is that right? 5 MR. CORDOVA: For a pat search? 6 MR. MCFARLAND: No -- 7 MR. CORDOVA: For a strip search? 8 MR. MCFARLAND: -- I'm sorry, for a strip 9 search. 10 MR. CORDOVA: A strip search, yes. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Otherwise, a clothing 12 search or a pat down is the only appropriate search, is 13 that correct? 14 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 15 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 17 MR. MAESTAS: But again, this is during the 18 intake. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 20 MR. MAESTAS: The initial intake. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So what -- how does the 22 process differ, you know, in seg? When would 180 1 you -- and how do you -- decide what are the criteria 2 for a strip search in seg? 3 MR. MAESTAS: Oh, the -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: After they have been in -- you 5 know, inducted. 6 MR. MAESTAS: If they are coming in from CCP, 7 from courts -- 8 MR. MCFARLAND: From work release? 9 MR. MAESTAS: Work release -- 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Transported to court? 11 MR. MAESTAS: Any time they are out of the 12 facility, they actually leave the facility, we are 13 entitled to give them a strip search. 14 But as far as strip-searching the inmate, if 15 we find -- if they're smoking, or if they possibly have 16 contraband on them, we can conduct a strip search. But 17 it's always in the presence of a supervisor. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what about 19 cross-gender supervision of a strip search? Does that 20 happen? 21 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. But it is -- I have 22 females in my unit, so I will always call a female 181 1 supervisor to be present during the -- and along with 2 the other female corrections officer. 3 MR. CORDOVA: So the same gender is conducting 4 the search; it's not mixed. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Are same gender pat downs 6 allowed at MDC? Cross -- opposite gender? 7 MR. MAESTAS: Females. 8 MR. CORDOVA: Females can pat search males and 9 female inmates. Males can only pat search male 10 inmates. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Males 12 cannot -- they cannot pat down females? 13 MR. CORDOVA: No, Sir. 14 MR. MAESTAS: No, Sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And can males be 16 involved in a strip search of a female inmate? 17 MR. CORDOVA: No, Sir. 18 MR. MAESTAS: No, Sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And can a female be 20 involved in a strip search of a male inmate? 21 MR. CORDOVA: I think, by policy, they can. 22 But it doesn't happen. We really make sure that we 182 1 have the same gender, regardless. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Why is that? 3 MR. CORDOVA: It's safer, I believe, just -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Safer for? 5 MR. CORDOVA: You know, a male inmate is 6 probably less likely to say he was offended by being 7 observed during a strip search by a female officer, I 8 believe, but we don't -- wouldn't put ourselves in that 9 situation. It's going to be males on males, and 10 females on females. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: So you protect your staff? 12 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that why you do that? 14 MR. CORDOVA: Yes, Sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: That practice? Okay. But 16 you're saying the policy is -- still permits 17 cross-gender involvement in a strip search? 18 MR. CORDOVA: As far as a female being 19 present, I believe. I could be wrong, so -- 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 21 MR. CORDOVA: I'm not entirely sure. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, in the -- in intake, 183 1 there is the dress-out, right? 2 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: In intake? 4 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Are you familiar with that 6 process? 7 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 8 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And who is present 10 there? Because that's happening just outside of 11 booking, right? 12 MR. MAESTAS: The property officer is the one 13 that's conducting the dress-out. If it is same gender, 14 if it's males inside dressing out, the male property 15 officer would be there. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Is it one-on-one, or are there 17 two officers in all dress-outs? 18 MR. MAESTAS: One officer. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And this is a private 20 room without windows, right? 21 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So all new admitees are 184 1 dressed out, stripped -- 2 MR. MAESTAS: They are stripped, and they are 3 just in their boxers, yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. You don't do a cavity 5 search for new admitees? 6 MR. MAESTAS: No, Sir, unless they meet that 7 criteria, or -- 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Unless they meet two of the 9 boxes. 10 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. Yes, Sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: If they're going to go into a 12 secure population and they have a felony, they meet two 13 of the boxes, right? So they're going to get strip 14 searched? 15 MR. CORDOVA: If they have drug-related 16 charges -- 17 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 18 MR. CORDOVA: -- and a history, possibly, of 19 bringing in contraband or drug-related charges. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: You're right. Felony charges 21 pertaining to drugs, weapons, or violence. 22 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 185 1 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 2 MS. CHUNN: How much trouble do you have with 3 contraband? 4 MR. CORDOVA: I don't think we're any 5 different than any other facility. We have our share, 6 obviously. I think that one of the major problems is 7 being a county jail, and we have certain programs going 8 on, we have inmates that are, you know, probation 9 violators probably that -- they know they're coming 10 back, so they prepare for it. 11 We have those folks, you know, 400-plus 12 inmates that are on a community custody program that, 13 you know, although it's a very good program, we do have 14 people who make mistakes. And, knowing that, you know, 15 they prepare for re-entry, and so that's a problem. 16 You know, we have folks that are released on, 17 say, a furlough for whatever reason. You know, willing 18 or unwilling, they are an avenue for contraband to be 19 brought in. You know, they tell other inmates, "I'm 20 going on furlough for," say, a funeral or something, 21 and they're pressured or -- not so much pressured, 22 they're -- you know, they're pretty much threatened, 186 1 "You bring this back, or else." 2 So, that's a big problem. But, you know, 3 staff is not uncommon, either. I think it's a lot 4 lower, but it is an issue. Contraband is an issue. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And doesn't sexual activity 6 follow the contraband? 7 MR. CORDOVA: I guess it could, yes. I don't 8 know that I have ever experienced it myself, where they 9 were related directly. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, you got to have some 11 contraband, unless there is some romantic motive, 12 you've got to have some contraband to pay for the act 13 that the predator wants, right? 14 MR. CORDOVA: It could play into it, yes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, has that been your 16 experience, that the units that have a bigger 17 contraband presence, you have to be a bit more vigilant 18 for -- against sexual assault? 19 MR. CORDOVA: Any type of assault, yes. 20 MR. MAESTAS: And it could be assault, it 21 could be just commissary, too. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: That's right. Anything of any 187 1 value is going to be a source of potential assault or 2 sexual assault, is that correct? 3 MR. CORDOVA: It could be, yes. 4 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 6 MS. ELLIS: I don't know whether you have 7 covered this area during my absence, but I am curious 8 about knowing what do you transmit, as supervisors, to 9 your staff regarding homosexuals within your facility? 10 What is the mindset? What is the level of respect and 11 regard for individual differences, based on culture? 12 What -- talk a little bit about homosexuals in the 13 facility. 14 MR. CORDOVA: The officers, all the staff, are 15 trained to treat everybody equally, regardless of their 16 gender, sexual orientation, any of that. No matter 17 what their charges are, what they're in jail for, where 18 they're housed. 19 You know, you have a protective custody pod, 20 and they are treated just as fairly as -- or they 21 should be treated just as fairly as anybody else in any 22 other area, a DWI arrest. So that information is -- or 188 1 staff are well aware that they should treat everyone 2 equally and fairly. 3 MS. ELLIS: Are there any issues, particularly 4 issues that arise regarding homosexuals? 5 MR. CORDOVA: When -- 6 MS. ELLIS: In terms of where they're 7 being -- who they're being housed with, where they're 8 being housed? 9 MR. CORDOVA: It could be a problem. We 10 have -- you will have inmates who have -- you know, 11 whether it be sexual orientation or charges, that don't 12 want protective custody, you know, they've been in jail 13 before, they pretty much say they can handle 14 themselves, so they go to general population, and there 15 is that potential for assault, whether it be sexual or 16 not. 17 But we have to give them the same opportunity 18 to be in general population. We can't just max them 19 out in seg indefinitely, because of their history, you 20 know, unless they request it and they ask for 21 protection; that's different. But if they say they 22 don't want protective custody, we give them the 189 1 opportunity to go to general population, and see how 2 they do, obviously, in the right classification. 3 MS. ELLIS: Did you want to answer? 4 MR. MAESTAS: I was just going to say the same 5 thing, that they're all given the same chance. 6 MS. ELLIS: You have any transgenders? 7 MR. MAESTAS: There are some, yes. 8 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 9 MS. ELLIS: And what accommodations are made 10 in those instances? 11 MR. CORDOVA: They are afforded the same 12 opportunities, as far as classification. If, you know, 13 they have been in custody before, and they feel like 14 they can walk -- and we have several -- well, I won't 15 say several, because it's a lower number, you know, as 16 far as the population is concerned. 17 But, you know, some have been in and out of 18 custody so many times that they are well known amongst 19 the inmate population, and they are pretty much left 20 alone. So they can walk the line. Whereas others, you 21 know, may be newer to the facility, and they may have 22 problems in population. So the other option is 190 1 protective custody. 2 MS. ELLIS: Do you know if you have any 3 homosexual staff on board? 4 MR. CORDOVA: I don't know that we don't. 5 None that are that open, where it's common knowledge. 6 MS. ELLIS: Okay, thank you. 7 MS. CHUNN: Are the inmates, detainees, 8 allowed to have pornography? 9 MR. CORDOVA: No. No, Ma'am. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, we are going to break at 11 this time for lunch. 12 And we have more questions for this panel, so 13 we will reconvene in an hour, promptly at just before 14 1:30. 15 (Whereupon, a luncheon recess was taken.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 191 1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 2 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. We're back on the 3 record. Captains, thank you for coming back. 4 Just before we began, I just asked you if you 5 had any personal knowledge of any of the 16 incident 6 reports involving inmate-on-inmate or staff-on-inmate 7 sexual assault during calendar 2007. And I am just 8 taking this list off of your counsel's answers to our 9 question number 21. 10 And am I correct that you don't know -- you 11 don't have any personal knowledge of any of these 16 12 incidents? 13 MR. CORDOVA: (Shaking head.) 14 MR. MAESTAS: No, Sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Then we won't bother 16 going through those. 17 Who is ineligible -- which inmates are 18 ineligible for any type of programming that general 19 population would get? 20 MR. CORDOVA: Violent felons, for one, or 21 violent inmates, period, no matter what their charges 22 are we have that are assaultive. You know, Cpt. 192 1 Maestas deals with those folks in seg, so -- because of 2 their behavior towards staff and other inmates. 3 Obviously, it's a safety concern, and so they wouldn't 4 be eligible for the programming. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And would they wind up 6 in seg, or could you have some violent felons in E-7 or 7 E-8? 8 MR. CORDOVA: I have high risk or they 9 have -- they're higher felons, yes, and maybe have a 10 history of violence, but have done well in segregation, 11 and eventually make it back to general population. And 12 that is monitored, also, where if more violent behavior 13 arises and they end up going back to seg, you know, 14 after so many occasions of violence, they end up 15 staying in seg as a security threat. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, so if they're in 17 your unit, Cpt. Maestas, in seg, they're not going to 18 be able to attend any programming? 19 MR. MAESTAS: No, the only -- I have two pods 20 that have programs in them, and it's just religious 21 programs, which is seg one and seg five. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And everybody else is 193 1 ineligible until they get out of seg? 2 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And, Cpt. Cordova, 4 if -- are any of your folks in unit Echo ineligible for 5 programming? 6 MR. CORDOVA: Yes and no. I have some 7 programming that just about all the inmates in my unit 8 are eligible for, like anger management, the peanut 9 butter and jelly program, life skills, and those types 10 are conducted in the pod. 11 The charter school, which is fairly new, some 12 of those folks are ineligible because of their history, 13 their charges, current charges, that kind of stuff. So 14 they go through a committee of -- involving the 15 teachers and the principal that run the charter school, 16 with input from security for the recommendation, 17 whether they're allowed to participate or not. So 18 there are some that are not eligible for that 19 particular program. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Are there any other programs 21 that any of your E unit folks would not be eligible 22 for? 194 1 MR. CORDOVA: Details, work details, because 2 you know, they're allowed more access to different 3 areas. For the most part, I would say because they're 4 being able to move around a little bit more freely in 5 the facility, the detail part is definitely something 6 that they're not eligible for. 7 But there are other areas where we can 8 consider them, you know, God's pods. ATP also, the 9 alcohol treatment program, so -- 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Where is the God pod, or God 11 pods -- 12 MR. CORDOVA: There are two -- I'm sorry to 13 interrupt. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes -- 15 MR. CORDOVA: There are two. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: And where are they? 17 MR. CORDOVA: D-4. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 19 MR. CORDOVA: And the other is in Frank-seven. 20 Correct? 21 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, F-7. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: F-7? 195 1 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 2 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: That's what I -- okay. So, 4 would you say that your inmates, your serious felons in 5 E-7 and E-8, are the more idle than the rest of the 6 general population? 7 MR. CORDOVA: Somewhat, as far as the 8 programming is concerned. But I ask that my 9 supervisors and staff -- and they have actually done 10 very well at doing it -- but they do programming within 11 the pod, you know, they do -- in Echo 8, for example, I 12 have a couple of different groups that do Bible 13 tournaments, and you know, arts, you know, those types 14 of things. 15 Especially around the holidays we do that, and 16 the incentive is, you know, more TV time, or you know, 17 different programming, as far as bringing in 18 appropriate movies and stuff for them to watch, to keep 19 the peace, handball tournaments, stuff like that, to 20 keep them from, you know, disruptive behavior. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. Why is it important to 22 keep them busy? 196 1 MR. CORDOVA: They get too much time on their 2 hands, they start thinking of the bad things they can 3 be doing instead. 4 So, you know, the assault rate has -- it 5 fluctuates, obviously, and with our key performance 6 indicators, it gives us, as captains, you know, 7 managers, a good idea of when it's spiking, and 8 hopefully determine what the reasons are behind that 9 spike, and what are we going to do about controlling 10 that. 11 And programming is very popular, and becoming 12 more and more popular, actually, to, you know, combat 13 that spike in assault and damage to the facility, and 14 that type of thing. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, Captain, in your 16 experience, you see a correlation between more activity 17 and programming, and a decrease in assaults and 18 disruptive behavior? 19 MR. CORDOVA: Definitely. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. Gentlemen, you 21 probably heard me ask this question of the previous 22 panel, but I want to ask it of you, as well. 197 1 Who are the inmates, in your experience, who 2 are more likely to be at a higher risk of becoming a 3 sexual assault victim? Let's start with you, Cpt. 4 Maestas. 5 MR. MAESTAS: The first-time inmate, first 6 time getting booked in. Real low esteem, vulnerable, 7 weak -- 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Physically weak? 9 MR. MAESTAS: Physically. Mentally, also. 10 The mentally ill. I feel that those are the ones who 11 are bound to -- you know, if things were to happen, 12 they would prey on them. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you get any of that 14 information about any of those factors when you get 15 somebody transferred to your unit? 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: What? Which of the 18 information? 19 MR. MAESTAS: What happens is we go through 20 a -- we talked about a reclassification, or just, 21 period, classification. An inmate actually tells the 22 supervisor, the escorting officer, that they cannot 198 1 move to that pod, or that's -- we will pull them 2 in -- I, myself, and the supervisor, pull them in and 3 we talk to them, ask them, "Okay, what's going on," and 4 that's when we do bring out the, "Okay, do you have 5 a" -- you know, "Have you been threatened? Have you 6 been" -- they tell us, you know, what answers we want. 7 If they have been -- any type of assaults 8 made, especially the inmates that have money -- and 9 they do have money, some of them, when they come 10 in -- so we get them, put them aside, run them through 11 reclass again, or I will put them in my segregation 12 unit, PC or admin seg. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Single-celled or 14 double-celled? 15 MR. MAESTAS: They will be in the same type of 16 classification, because they just got classified. I 17 wouldn't put them in with a predator or CSP charges 18 until we actually talk to them, and see if they meet 19 the criteria. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Now CSP charges is criminal 21 sexual penetration, right? 22 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 199 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So if they haven't been 2 convicted of that, what else do you -- how do you know 3 somebody might be a predator, when you're trying to 4 figure out who to house them with? 5 MR. MAESTAS: I go off of their charges, and 6 then we actually -- the inmates will tell you if they 7 can go in that cell, if they are -- the officers that 8 we have working our units are -- like my day shift 9 officers -- they are every day, except for his days 10 off. We have an officer that covers for them. 11 So, we have constant presence of the same 12 officer. So that's where the communication with the 13 inmates, the mobility of the officer walking around, 14 and they see what inmates don't get along. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry, the -- 16 MS. CHUNN: When you say -- 17 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry. They see which 18 inmates -- 19 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, like if you have -- inside 20 my area of segregation, if they can't make it in a pod, 21 the majority of the reasoning as to why they're in 22 segregation is the fact that they just don't get along 200 1 with the gangs that are going on in the general 2 population, or being assaulted -- not sexually, but 3 physically. 4 MS. CHUNN: Would you explain a little more 5 about the inmates that come in and you say they do have 6 money? Tell me what that means. 7 MR. MAESTAS: Well -- 8 MS. CHUNN: Does that mean that -- 9 MR. MAESTAS: What I mean is on commissary 10 days, we sell commissary inside segregation. And these 11 guys are in reclass. So when they -- let's say they 12 came from Echo unit or F unit, and they're ordering $90 13 or $100, the inmates that they're housed with, these 14 see that these guys have -- they have money. 15 So, that's how -- the other inmates, like how 16 we had mentioned earlier, they -- I can't say "they," 17 but they notice who buys the canteen -- who has the 18 calling cards. 19 MS. CHUNN: When you say "they" -- 20 MR. MAESTAS: The inmates, I'm sorry. 21 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 22 MR. MAESTAS: Inmates. 201 1 MS. CHUNN: You have some kind -- do you have 2 some kind of a voucher system that allows them to 3 purchase from the commissary so much? 4 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Ma'am. They -- we have -- 5 MS. CHUNN: They don't have the physical 6 money. 7 MR. MAESTAS: No, no, no, no, no. 8 MS. CHUNN: Okay. 9 MR. MAESTAS: Everything is on their books, on 10 their account. 11 MS. CHUNN: And so, they see who has the 12 money? 13 MR. MAESTAS: Mm-hmm. 14 MS. CHUNN: Is there a way for them to 15 actually get money to give to somebody, or is 16 everything a function of what I can buy for you in the 17 commissary? 18 MR. MAESTAS: It's a -- I have to order for 19 myself. If I was incarcerated, I would have to order 20 my food. 21 MS. CHUNN: Okay. 22 MR. MAESTAS: And if I had to give some 202 1 money -- say somebody came to the jail to request money 2 from my account, I myself would have to sign the 3 voucher saying that they can release money. 4 MS. CHUNN: Okay. But that can be done? 5 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 6 MS. CHUNN: Does it have to be somebody that 7 is in that pod, or anybody anywhere in the facility? 8 MR. MAESTAS: It's in that -- it has to 9 be -- the person that is requesting the money has to be 10 at the facility. 11 MS. CHUNN: And does the staff monitor that in 12 any way, or -- 13 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Ma'am. We have -- our cash 14 accounting department, you're only allowed to take out 15 once a month from an inmate's books. And if numerous 16 inmates or family members try to take money out, our 17 cash accounting -- or even depositing money into an 18 inmate's account -- our cash accounting will notify us 19 or the unit captain and say, "Hey, you got multiple 20 people dropping off money inside a certain inmate's 21 books." 22 And so that we will pull it, and we will pull 203 1 that inmate in, or we will check his cell to see, okay, 2 he might be running a store, he might be trying to run 3 some type of contraband. 4 MS. CHUNN: But there is no other place that 5 it can be spent, except the commissary, is that right? 6 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Ma'am. 7 MS. CHUNN: Okay. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: So, in addition to what you 9 have already listed, Cpt. Maestas, what are the 10 other -- any other factors that describe a potential 11 sexual assault victim? Like what about age or gender 12 or sexual -- 13 MR. MAESTAS: Age, gender -- I'm sorry to 14 interrupt. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Sexual preference? 16 MR. MAESTAS: In my career, the time I've been 17 with the department, I have seen both genders that have 18 gotten -- great inside the general population, no 19 problems. Sex, color, gender -- I think it's depending 20 on the inmate, it's himself or herself, as far as if 21 they're vulnerable or not. 22 But I mean, stereotyping them 204 1 is -- their -- how they are when they come in, it 2 doesn't really send an alarm. You will ask them before 3 you -- you know, they move them or anything like that, 4 if they feel safe, just like we do at classification. 5 And as far as age, the younger inmates are the 6 ones I feel that would be most vulnerable. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And would you want to ask your 8 new arrivals in seg about their sexual preference? 9 Would that be something that would be relevant to you, 10 in trying to figure out who might be vulnerable, and 11 who might not? 12 MR. MAESTAS: I think it would, on a case by 13 case, as far as the -- a new intake, brand new to the 14 institution, or into the jail, it would be helpful. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you -- what information do 16 you get on inmates that come to seg? 17 MR. MAESTAS: The new intakes, or -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, new intakes. 19 MR. MAESTAS: We get a booking sheet when they 20 bring them to seg eight. And when we transport them 21 in, where they drop them off, my intake officer is the 22 one that places them. If they're felons, they're 205 1 locked in cells with the same type of charges, felony 2 charges. And misdemeanors are placed in a holding 3 cell -- or in the day room. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: So when you say felons with 5 the same kinds of charges would be locked together, if 6 they're both CSP convicts, would they be put together? 7 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Does that give you some 9 concern, that you would have two sex offenders housed 10 in the same cell? 11 MR. MAESTAS: It does. But with the 12 monitoring of the officer, and the presence that -- he 13 is inside the unit, and with the intercom system that 14 we have, the video surveillance, I feel that we're 15 ample to meet the needs of the inmates. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, when you say the intercom 17 system, is there a button, an intercom system, 18 where -- a panic button for -- in any of the seg pods? 19 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. There is an intercom 20 system, where they can have communication with the pod 21 officer. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And can you -- can anybody 206 1 hear what's going on inside a cell, even if they don't 2 push the button? 3 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. So you can have 5 random audio surveillance, as well as zoom in your 6 camera on a particular cell in seg, is that correct? 7 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, that's nice. 9 MS. CHUNN: Can we go back to the commissary 10 for a minute? If I am an inmate, and I want to have 11 sex with another inmate -- I'm not interested in raping 12 the person, I'm just -- I'm going to be a while, and I 13 think this other person is going to be here a while, 14 and I'd just as soon try to do this another way, rather 15 than aggressively. 16 Could I use the commissary, giving things to 17 this other person that I am interested in from the 18 commissary, as a way of sort of -- 19 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Making them indebted to you? 21 MR. CORDOVA: I mean, whether it be monetarily 22 or with the actual goods, the commissary, I mean, if an 207 1 inmate has money in their account and they order it, 2 and they want to pay somebody off for whatever the 3 reason may be, yes. They could do that with a food 4 tray, if they needed to, or clothing. So, yes. 5 MS. CHUNN: Do the staff monitor any 6 transactions that seem to repeat themselves over time? 7 It's like, "I've noticed she is giving 8 so-and-so something every other week," or something. 9 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. When we -- as a floor 10 officer, supervisor, they will notice that these 11 inmates have never had money on their books, but yet 12 they have a lot of commissary. 13 So they will notify -- like, again, the 14 officer will notify the supervisor, the officer can 15 take it upon himself, and they can request a receipt 16 for the merchandise that they have in their cell. And 17 if they do not provide a receipt, we can take that from 18 them. 19 MR. CORDOVA: Some things that are being 20 done -- and I'm not sure if it's going to happen or 21 not, but a suggestion has been made where, because 22 of -- to prevent those types of transactions as best we 208 1 can, you know, inmates will have X amount of money in 2 their accounts, and they're releasing it to other 3 inmates, family members, for pay-off for whatever 4 reason. 5 So we want to limit it to, A, one individual 6 per inmate that can provide the money and, obviously, 7 withdraw if they wanted to. Is it going to control it 8 all together? Probably not. But it will slow it down 9 some, you know. 10 And then the same thing Cpt. Maestas has 11 mentioned, large amounts of commissary. They're 12 running a store, we can take it if you don't have the 13 receipts to back that they bought it themselves. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: So would we add to this list 15 of red flags for sexual assault victims someone who is 16 heavily indebted for commissary? 17 MR. CORDOVA: That's possible, yes. 18 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Cpt. Cordova, what would you 20 add to the list of potential victim factors? 21 MR. CORDOVA: Possibly displaying feminine 22 characteristics, as far as the males are concerned. 209 1 And then, you know, along with what Cpt. Maestas 2 mentioned, you know, first-time offenders, self-esteem 3 is way down, don't really know the jail system so 4 they -- you know, they're looking for guidance from 5 other inmates, and then, you know, eventually, you 6 know, the potential to have to pay the price for 7 protection, or whatever, because they don't know what's 8 going on. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: You've got a lot of gangs 10 there, right? 11 MR. CORDOVA: Several. 12 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: You've got a gang war going on 14 right now in Albuquerque. 15 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 16 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Does gang affiliation, 18 or the lack of it, affect who might be more likely to 19 be at risk for sexual assault? 20 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. The lack of gang 21 affiliation is -- 22 MR. MCFARLAND: You've got nobody to protect 210 1 you. 2 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 3 MR. MAESTAS: Exactly. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: There are repercussions if you 5 rape a gang-banger, right? 6 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 7 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Anything else that we're 9 overlooking? Or, more importantly, what you look for. 10 MR. CORDOVA: What we look for in a potential 11 victim? 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 13 MR. CORDOVA: All the same characteristics, 14 obviously, but you know, we also have that 15 communication network where, you know, our pod officers 16 are noticing that an inmate is showing signs that, you 17 know, one day he is okay and he is active and he is 18 communicating with folks, and all the sudden he is 19 withdrawn and not communicating any more, just a change 20 in his patterns. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 22 MR. CORDOVA: You know, and I think Cpt. 211 1 Maestas kind of touched on the fact that our officers 2 are in those pods on a daily basis for 180 days at a 3 time. So they really get to know their -- who they're 4 working with, you know, in that pod. Every single day, 5 they know the same people, they see the same faces. 6 They also notice the new ones that come in, and how 7 they're interacting, if at all, with the other inmates. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: You both have a lot of 9 experience, and a lot of good insights into this area. 10 Have you had occasion yet to train the line officers, 11 especially the new ones, in what to look for, and how 12 to prevent sexual assault? 13 MR. CORDOVA: I do some training on -- it's 14 more geared towards employee conduct and misconduct, 15 but I also talk about reporting, as far as, you know, 16 sexual assaults, or any kind of assault, for that 17 matter. But yes, we do some training on that. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And when do you do that? 19 MR. CORDOVA: I do it every six weeks for the 20 new academy class, and then also for in-service 21 training. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And then -- 212 1 MR. CORDOVA: And then for support staff, when 2 they have their 40-hour block. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And that specifically 4 covers PREA topics? 5 MR. CORDOVA: It's not -- it's specifically 6 more to employee conduct and ethics, and then I also go 7 into a little bit about the PREA. But there are other 8 employees that cover PREA, specifically. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, does anybody cover in 10 the academy or the in-service the profile of a 11 potential sexual assault victim? 12 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And who covers that, 14 currently? 15 MR. CORDOVA: Erin Worsham covers the PREA. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: I see that hand from Ms. 17 Worsham in the back there, okay. 18 Cpt. Maestas, same question to you. 19 MR. MAESTAS: I don't conduct the training 20 like Cpt. Cordova does in, you know, in-service. Mine 21 is general training on new officers and just everyday 22 briefing, as far as reporting anything that happens in 213 1 the unit, and be mobile and take every report serious. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: So those are the post 3 briefings? 4 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: When you're changing? Okay. 6 MR. CORDOVA: I would add also that we also do 7 some Web-based training, and then we have -- 8 MR. MAESTAS: Trainers -- 9 MR. CORDOVA: -- trainers and stuff that we 10 make sure our staff get on -- 11 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 12 MR. CORDOVA: -- on the computer, and do those 13 10-minute trainers also, that -- 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, well those -- do those 15 10-minute trainers have anything to do with sexual 16 assault prevention? 17 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 18 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, when did that start? 20 MR. MAESTAS: We've been doing the 10-minute 21 training for quite a while. I'm not sure how long the 22 PREA has been in place. 214 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Was it in place when you 2 became a captain, Cpt. Maestas? 3 MR. MAESTAS: The PREA one? 4 MR. MCFARLAND: The 10-minute training on 5 PREA. 6 MR. MAESTAS: No. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So it's some time this 8 year, then, 2008? 9 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 10 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 11 MR. CORDOVA: It was covered in the academy 12 training. But as far as the 10-minute training, I 13 don't think it had been. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And what is this 10-minute 15 training? Is -- this is in-service something? 16 MR. CORDOVA: Yes -- 17 MR. MAESTAS: It's sent out -- Ms. Worsham has 18 sent it through the computer system. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 20 MR. MAESTAS: And all the officers on -- all 21 staff of MDC have to take this test. It's -- you read 22 the pamphlet prior, and then you take -- I think it's a 215 1 10-question test. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. 3 MR. MAESTAS: And then you turn it into the 4 training academy, and it's placed inside each 5 individual's files for documentation. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Great. So it's got some teeth 7 behind it. 8 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Sweet. Could we see, Ms. 10 Worsham, the 10-minute deal, if you could print it out? 11 I don't know if you could. Yes? That would be great, 12 the 10 questions. 13 All right. We've talked about profiles of 14 sexual assault victims. What are the -- what's the 15 profile of the staff, in your experience, that are most 16 likely to get inappropriately involved with an inmate? 17 MR. MAESTAS: Again, self-esteem, that's a big 18 one. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Low self-esteem? 20 MR. MAESTAS: Low self-esteem. Vulnerable, 21 again. But I think self-esteem, low self-esteem, is 22 probably the -- you know, financially in debt, that 216 1 could be an issue. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Are female correctional 3 officers more likely to become romantically enticed by 4 a male inmate than male officers on a male or a female 5 inmate? 6 MR. MAESTAS: I believe so, Sir, yes. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: That's been your experience? 8 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 9 MR. CORDOVA: Mine, too. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So how does a 11 correctional officer get compromised in that way? I 12 understand we just talked about a profile, or she's 13 going through a divorce, you know, financial pressure. 14 What -- 15 MR. CORDOVA: I think sometimes -- I'm sorry? 16 MR. MAESTAS: Go ahead. 17 MR. CORDOVA: I think I have -- in my 18 experience, where an officer involves him or herself in 19 an inmate's particular case, and becomes a little bit, 20 well, too compassionate and more involved than he or 21 she should be, and eventually becomes personally 22 involved in that inmate's charges, and then the 217 1 attachment grows. 2 And, you know, obviously, there is the 3 comments made by inmates, you know, the "I love you's," 4 and, "I will do you good as soon as I" -- you know, "I 5 will be a better person when I get out of jail and take 6 care of you for the rest of my life," all those 7 promises of what they can do for you when they get 8 through their ordeal in jail, they start to believe 9 those things are true. 10 And, ultimately, the only reason they're doing 11 it is for some type of favor, whether it be contraband 12 or otherwise. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Or sex. 14 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 15 MS. CHUNN: Do you teach this in the -- I 16 think you mentioned something about teaching and 17 in-service -- 18 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. Again, I do a couple of 19 different blocks of training. And the employee conduct 20 and ethics is one of them. And I give examples of past 21 experience, actual experiences, where people get 22 involved, staff get involved with inmates 218 1 inappropriately. 2 And, at the same time, there is also, you 3 know, training on inmate con games and stuff, and -- 4 MS. CHUNN: Do you use actual experiences that 5 have happened at MDC? 6 MR. CORDOVA: In my experiences? Yes. 7 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: That's great. So it's not all 9 theory? 10 MR. CORDOVA: No, it's fact. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Officer did A -- Officer B, 12 and -- 13 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: But this is a real thing, it 15 happened, somebody lost their job, it was in this 16 facility, these were the circumstances. 17 MR. CORDOVA: How it led up to it, every 18 detail that I know -- with the exception of giving 19 names, obviously -- 20 MR. MCFARLAND: That's good. 21 MR. CORDOVA: I let them know how it happened, 22 so they can see the chain reaction. 219 1 MS. CHUNN: If you reported to duty one day, 2 after having been in Washington, and you heard there 3 had been a sexual assault while you were gone, before 4 you got the details, where would you suspect that it 5 had happened? 6 MR. CORDOVA: If it's reported to me, I am 7 assuming that it happened in my unit. 8 MS. CHUNN: Right. 9 MR. CORDOVA: So, you know, where I have the 10 most trouble, as far as inmate behavior, is Echo six, 11 seven, and eight, because of their classification. 12 Also, I have one pod that is misdemeanor, but 13 where Cpt. Maestas has to give the opportunity to those 14 folks who were in protective custody the opportunity to 15 try to make it in general population, I get some of 16 those folks in Echo five. So that's another area. 17 MS. CHUNN: Where in those units would you 18 expect that it may have happened? 19 MR. CORDOVA: Particularly cells -- we do our 20 best, as far as controlling traffic in and out. When 21 it's general population time, the officers are to 22 conduct their accounts, let them off for general 220 1 population time, log that they're out for GP. 2 And after they let them out, they shut their 3 doors behind them -- they can stay in if they like, but 4 we shut their doors behind them, and then we open them 5 on the hour for approximately 15 minutes, so they can 6 go and use the facilities, or gather materials that 7 they need, and then it's shut again. So we had to 8 control it that way. 9 MS. CHUNN: Cpt. Maestas, what would your 10 answer be to that same question? 11 MR. MAESTAS: Segregation eight. And that's 12 my intake and multiple classifications that -- they go 13 in there, so that's where I would feel that it would 14 happen. 15 MR. CORDOVA: And population. 16 MR. MAESTAS: And -- 17 MR. MCFARLAND: The reason -- I'm sorry, go 18 ahead. 19 MR. MAESTAS: And because of population, too, 20 the amount of inmates that I have inside there that are 21 housed. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry, I want to make sure 221 1 I understand. Seg eight would be your vulnerable 2 point, if any, because of the fact that you have mixed 3 misdemeanor and felony? 4 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Felons? 6 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And some or all of them 8 haven't been classified yet? 9 MR. MAESTAS: Correct. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Any other reason? It's 11 awfully crowded in there, right? 12 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, it's off -- my count is 13 high inside there. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 15 MR. MAESTAS: And, plus, the turnover rate 16 is -- I mean, they're in there for -- within 72 hours 17 they are classified out of there, they will be moved. 18 And so, somebody coming through, you know, 19 might see somebody and -- 20 MR. MCFARLAND: How would you -- knowing that 21 that's your vulnerable point, what would you -- if you 22 were the warden, and you had an unlimited budget, which 222 1 he doesn't, what would you do to make that less 2 vulnerable? Like, hire more classification officers, 3 so they can do it quicker? 4 MR. MAESTAS: The screening process would be a 5 little bit -- that would help out. 6 MS. CHUNN: You mean expedite the screening? 7 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Ma'am, on the initial 8 intake, on the initial -- before they got to my unit, 9 knowing what I have, more than what I don't have. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: So, more information going 11 into seg eight would be helpful on each of your new 12 admittees, is that correct? 13 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And would you want to see the 15 information that was gleaned by the medical staff from 16 their screening process, specifically -- or including 17 the questions about sexual assault and sexual offenses? 18 MR. MAESTAS: That would help. It's a 19 learning experience, and plus a team effort. And it 20 starts from the first time the inmates come in. 21 MS. CHUNN: What if you got to work and you 22 heard there had been a sexual assault, and you found 223 1 out later that it was staff-on-inmate? 2 Would you have in mind -- without calling any 3 names -- would you have in mind who could have been the 4 perpetrator? And -- wait a minute, this is not the end 5 of the question -- and how and when this person may 6 have acted? 7 Give me the criteria that you would use, in 8 your mind, sort of sift through the folk who work for 9 you, with you, and how you would make a guess about 10 who, where, and when. 11 MR. CORDOVA: That's a tough one. 12 MS. CHUNN: Good. Good. I haven't asked that 13 yet. 14 MR. CORDOVA: I'm still thinking, too. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, thinking is good. 16 MR. CORDOVA: Yes, especially before speaking, 17 right? 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Take your time. 19 MR. CORDOVA: So you're asking if there was an 20 assault, staff-on-inmate assault -- 21 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 22 MR. CORDOVA: -- who would I guess would be 224 1 the perpetrator -- 2 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 3 MR. CORDOVA: -- in that particular assault. 4 MS. CHUNN: And where and when. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Not mentioning names, of 6 course. 7 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 8 MR. CORDOVA: I don't know that I could, 9 honestly, guess who would be the perpetrator. If it's 10 a staff on inmate, I'm going to assume, because, you 11 know, a person of authority has more control, I'm going 12 to -- you know, I guess if I had to guess, it would be 13 the employee. 14 The where? And we're talking physical 15 location, correct? 16 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 17 MR. CORDOVA: Janitor's closets, you know, 18 possibly a rec yard. I mean, there is surveillance 19 there, so that's not -- I don't know if I should say a 20 "convenient" location, but there is also a janitor's 21 closet out there. 22 If it's outside of the pod, you know, we have 225 1 classrooms. So -- and certain areas don't have the 2 surveillance we do in the secure areas. So, you know, 3 the classrooms don't have surveillance. So those are 4 possible areas, also. 5 Did you ask when, also? 6 MS. CHUNN: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. CORDOVA: I'm going to guess graveyard, 8 because less activity, less -- fewer people walking 9 around to notice that type of behavior. 10 MS. CHUNN: Cpt. Maestas? 11 MR. CORDOVA: Just say, "ditto." No, just 12 kidding. 13 MR. MAESTAS: I would have to follow along the 14 same way. It would have to be a -- he or she would 15 have to be, as far as a staff member, would be able to 16 have control over the inmate, or superior of the 17 inmate, and be able to go to a fixed location, where 18 out of sight, out of mind, and have -- he would have to 19 have some type of -- have, you know, some authority to 20 be able to manipulate the inmate to do that kind of 21 stuff. 22 MS. CHUNN: And when? 226 1 MR. MAESTAS: I would say graveyard, also. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Let me just come back to Ms. 3 -- the 10-minute training. And page four and five of 4 what Ms. Worsham just handed me has some very helpful 5 information. And there includes predator and victim 6 profiles. 7 Have either of you seen this list? Have you 8 done the 10-minute training? 9 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 10 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, just for the 12 record, let me -- just tell me if any of these 13 indicators of predatory behavior you would not agree 14 with: convicted of violent crimes, history of sexual 15 aggression, repeat or long-term offenders, gang 16 affiliations, frequent physical touching of other 17 inmates, favors or protection provided for other 18 inmates, eager to meet new inmates, and significant 19 social status. 20 And then, in a box next to it, it says, 21 "Inmates that give away commissary or do favors for 22 other inmates may be receiving or expecting sexual 227 1 favors as payment." 2 MR. CORDOVA: Eager to meet other inmates, I 3 don't -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry? 5 MR. CORDOVA: The one that -- "Eager to meet 6 other inmates?" I am not sure that that's -- 7 MR. MCFARLAND: That is not necessarily true 8 of predators? 9 MR. CORDOVA: I don't think so. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Cpt. Maestas, was there 11 anything you would modify from that list? I know you 12 didn't write it, I was -- 13 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, I would go along with the 14 "eager to meet," because I mean, I don't -- the rest 15 are there. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. But you would agree 17 with Cpt. Cordova, that this isn't -- that isn't 18 characteristic -- 19 MR. MAESTAS: No. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. "In contrast, inmates 21 who may become victims of sexual abuse may have some of 22 the following characteristics: first-time offenders," 228 1 we have already talked about that, "convicted of 2 non-violent crimes." Is that true? Does the nature of 3 their presenting offense correlate with being a victim 4 or not? 5 MR. CORDOVA: Somewhat, yes. I mean, the less 6 violent the offense, the more timid other inmates may 7 see that particular -- 8 MR. MCFARLAND: If you're in for homicide, 9 they're less likely to mess with you? 10 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 11 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 12 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Young and/or smaller in 14 stature, mental or physical disability, history of 15 prior sexual assault. Is that true? 16 MR. MAESTAS: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. CORDOVA: I would say that's a 18 perpetrator. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: That would not make somebody 20 more likely to be a victim, in your -- 21 MR. CORDOVA: Well, I guess it could, yes. I 22 think past experience or -- 229 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 2 MR. CORDOVA: -- charges related to that 3 behavior. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. Homosexual or 5 transgender. Do you agree with that? 6 MR. CORDOVA: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that a yes, Sir? 8 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 9 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Convicted of sex 11 crimes, or crimes against children. 12 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 13 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: And disliked by others, and 15 sometimes ostracized. 16 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 17 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, this is really 19 good stuff. 20 When -- forgive me if you -- I guess we 21 established this started in 2008, so this 22 wasn't -- this training wasn't going on -- Ms. Worsham 230 1 is confirming this -- in August of 2007. Okay. 2 MR. CORDOVA: We had 10-minute trainers, but 3 not on that -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Not on this? 5 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Then you have to sign 7 your training acknowledgment, which includes a 8 statement not only that you have read and understood, 9 but you agree to abide by the principles explained in 10 the training. And you sign that, and that goes in your 11 personnel file? 12 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 13 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, that's wonderful. 15 Do you know Delta Cpt. Matt Candelaria? 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, I do. 17 MR. CORDOVA: He has been reassigned since, 18 but yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Where is he now? 20 MR. CORDOVA: He runs our community custody 21 program. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, all right. Is -- do you 231 1 know him very well, Cpt. Maestas? 2 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Does he do anything in 4 the area of rape investigations? Or did he at MDC? 5 MR. MAESTAS: No, not that I am aware of. I 6 mean, we would do our own investigation, but then we 7 would forward it up. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. So if his name is 9 showing up on some of these reports, incident reports 10 and so forth, that's just in his capacity as a captain 11 of the unit where it happened? 12 MR. CORDOVA: Yes, Sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: It --he's not singled out as 14 having some special expertise that qualifies him as an 15 investigator? 16 MR. CORDOVA: No. 17 MR. MAESTAS: Not that I am aware of, Sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, one thing I 19 didn't -- where was he -- he was Delta captain? 20 MR. CORDOVA: He's been an captain of several 21 units over the years, so he has moved around quite a 22 bit. Or we all are, actually. We get assigned 232 1 periodically to different areas. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. I've got a couple of 3 more. 4 MS. CHUNN: Go ahead. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Is there any stigma attached 6 to being in protective custody? 7 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Why is that? 9 MR. CORDOVA: As an inmate? 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 11 MR. CORDOVA: As far as -- you're labeled a 12 snitch, you're labeled -- not -- if they didn't know 13 who you were or what you were there for, you're in 14 protective custody for one of those reasons, being a 15 sex offender, a snitch, a homosexual, transgender 16 possibly, also. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: So that would be a real 18 disincentive for somebody at intake, when he doesn't 19 know what he's in for, you know, what he's got in store 20 for him in general population. Nevertheless, he knows 21 that protective custody labels him, right off the 22 get-go. 233 1 So, is it fair to say that an offender going 2 for the first time in MDC might have some hesitancy to 3 say, "Oh, yes, I would like protective custody?" 4 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 5 MR. MAESTAS: Well, when one requests 6 protective custody, they have to -- we have an 7 interview form that they actually -- that we ask them, 8 as to why they are -- the majority of our inmates that 9 ask for protective, it's due to the fact of gang 10 affiliation, or that they owe people money, or -- 11 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 12 MR. MAESTAS: -- you know, from the streets. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: So, is there any stigma 14 attached to that, being gang affiliated, or being a 15 debtor? 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Don't you have quite a few 18 gang members, gang affiliates? 19 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: And they're not all asking to 21 be put in protective custody. 22 MR. MAESTAS: No, just the ones that are 234 1 either -- again, like the captain said, said something 2 against their gang, testified against them, or 3 did -- something they were supposed to do, they didn't 4 do it. Those are the ones that get labeled that. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: I see. Have you had a -- did 6 you have any attempted suicides in your respective 7 units in 2007? 8 MR. CORDOVA: I was assigned as captain in 9 September of 2007. And since then, no. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And, Captain -- was 11 that -- and since then you have not had an attempted 12 suicide in the -- 13 MR. CORDOVA: Not that I can recall, no. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, that's a pretty big 15 event, isn't it? 16 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. I mean, I have had 17 attempts on my shift, where it was almost comical in 18 nature. The attempt was shoddy at best, I guess. So 19 more an attention-getter. 20 We have one particular inmate that attempts it 21 almost weekly when he is in custody, just to draw 22 attention to himself. But no legitimate attempt while 235 1 I was -- while being assigned as a captain in my unit. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: How about seg since you have 3 been captain there? 4 MR. MAESTAS: In seg? Yes, Sir. Yes. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: How many attempted suicides? 6 MR. MAESTAS: At least five. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And that is during -- in what 8 period? 9 MR. MAESTAS: Since -- 10 MR. MCFARLAND: You became captain in seg in? 11 MR. MAESTAS: In July of 2007, July/August, in 12 between there. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So in four-and-a-half 14 -- four to five months, you had five attempted 15 suicides? 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. And those are 17 related, due to the fact of inmates that aren't taking 18 their meds, PSU psychotropic meds, that they're off 19 their meds. And then once they have evaluated them, 20 they will move them over to our PSU unit. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, is it true that at least 22 one of those attempts were -- was successful in MDC? I 236 1 don't know if it was in seg or in your -- in Echo unit. 2 MR. CORDOVA: Not in my unit. 3 MR. MAESTAS: Not in my unit. 4 MS. CHUNN: Cpt. Maestas and Cpt. Cordova, 5 tell me. If you could do one or two things that would 6 decrease the likelihood of sexual assault and sexual 7 victimization in your units, beyond what you have now, 8 beyond cameras and what you're doing now, if you could 9 do one or two additional things that might would 10 improve the safety of that environment, and prevent 11 sexual assault and sexual victimization, what would you 12 do? 13 MR. MAESTAS: Education and communication. 14 MS. CHUNN: You got to give me more than that. 15 When you say, "Education and communication" -- 16 MR. MAESTAS: Educating the officers, 17 training, educating the inmates, letting them know that 18 they don't have to be silent about it, it's not 19 a -- something that they should be ashamed of. 20 By not reporting it, then whoever is doing the 21 crime, or doing that, is never going to be caught. So, 22 coming up forth and telling us what happened. 237 1 MS. CHUNN: Communication. 2 MR. MAESTAS: Communication. And 3 communicating what -- like, again, with the officers, 4 with the inmates, letting them know that, you know, 5 they can come up to us, like I said a while ago, and 6 advise us of what's going on, that it's not a crime 7 against them, it's not a punishment. 8 MS. CHUNN: Cpt. Cordova? 9 MR. CORDOVA: Control the population better, 10 and classification and orientation for staff and 11 inmates. 12 MS. CHUNN: When you say, "Control the 13 population," what do you mean? I mean, I know what you 14 mean -- 15 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 16 MS. CHUNN: -- but tell me how it figures in 17 to reducing -- 18 MR. CORDOVA: Overpopulation. It's harder to 19 monitor that many inmates by one or two officers, you 20 know. Observations aren't as good. 21 The orientation part, obviously, we all need 22 to know, as far as staff and inmates, what we need to 238 1 do to control it or to prevent it. And so, you know, 2 what an inmate can do if he or she is a victim. 3 We talked about a hotline or other 4 suggestions, so it's more -- you know, they're more 5 likely to report it, because it's more confidential, 6 they don't feel like they're going to be labeled or, 7 you know -- and training. 8 I mean, training is always a big thing, 9 obviously. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: What PREA training in 2007 did 11 your correctional officers have? 12 MR. CORDOVA: I believe they are getting it in 13 the -- new officers and new employees, they got it in 14 the six-week academy, as far as the officers are 15 concerned. PREA was a part of that, as -- along the 16 lines with sexual harassment, and that other stuff. 17 And also, the new employees on the support 18 side get their 40-hour block, and I believe that's 19 included in there, also. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, other than that 21 40-hour block for the support staff and the academy for 22 the officers, was there any other -- and how much PREA 239 1 training was involved in that? I mean, how many hours 2 of PREA training? 3 MR. CORDOVA: Erin taught that. I'm not sure 4 how many hours. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Why don't you come on forward, 6 Erin, if you would, Ms. Worsham, and -- yes, you can 7 use this microphone. 8 MS. WORSHAM: In 2007 in the PREA service 9 training academy, we provided an hour-and-a-half worth 10 of training on PREA topics: sexual misconduct, 11 detailed, and PREA, the law. Since then we have 12 actually expanded it to three hours of training. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Good. 14 MS. WORSHAM: We also did approximately 45 15 minutes of training in the annual in-service as part of 16 that 40-hour block. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: The annual reservists, tell me 18 more about that training. 19 MS. WORSHAM: We bring all of our staff 20 in -- staff, contractors, security and 21 operations -- and they're required to complete 40 hours 22 of training annually on a number of different topics. 240 1 Some of those are ACA-mandated topics. Included in 2 that, though, are -- we do talk about PREA and employee 3 misconduct, conduct and ethics. 4 So, in addition to actually that 45 minutes, 5 we spend another hour -- I believe it's an 6 hour-and-a-half -- on conduct and ethics as well. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Great, okay. What is the 8 turnover -- what was the turnover in 2007 when you both 9 started as captains in the middle of 2007? What was 10 the turnover among your officers at that time? 11 MR. CORDOVA: I do not know that, the actual 12 numbers. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Ms. Worsham, do you -- 14 MS. WORSHAM: I'm trying to remember, off the 15 top -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: You used to be the HR person, 17 right? 18 MS. WORSHAM: I did. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 20 MS. WORSHAM: I'm trying to remember the exact 21 number, off the top of my head. What I am remembering 22 more is actually the reduction from 2007 to 2008, which 241 1 is a little over 35 percent reduction. 2 So, we did have -- after the transition, we 3 had definitely some rough times getting completely 4 staffed -- 5 MR. MCFARLAND: By "transition," from city to 6 county? 7 MS. WORSHAM: Correct. And, as a result, we 8 did have some higher turnover. But we have made 9 tremendous strides in that area. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: As a matter of fact, when you 11 took over, the city had -- gave you 150 correctional 12 officers in January of 2006. 13 MS. WORSHAM: We had -- 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Does that sound right? 15 MS. WORSHAM: Yes, we had roughly 150 16 vacancies. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And now you have 340, is that 18 correct? 19 MS. WORSHAM: Well, we had more than -- we 20 actually had 318 budgeted correctional officer 21 positions at the time of transition coming from the 22 city to the county. 242 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh. 2 MS. WORSHAM: We have increased that now. 3 But, at the time of the transition, as Chief Torres had 4 indicated, we had a number of individuals who made the 5 decision to pursue other positions within the city, 6 rather than coming over to the county. And we had 7 vacancies, as a result. So we did have roughly 150 8 vacancies to fill, right at that transition. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Wow. Captains, have you had 10 to discipline any of your correctional officers for not 11 reporting sexual assault? 12 MR. MAESTAS: No, Sir. 13 MR. CORDOVA: No. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Whether you did the 15 discipline or not, are you aware of any of your 16 officers being disciplined for failure to report sexual 17 assault? 18 MR. MAESTAS: No, Sir. 19 MR. CORDOVA: No. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Is overtime a common 21 occurrence at MDC? 22 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 243 1 MR. CORDOVA: Not as common as it was a while 2 back, of course, but yes, it's still there. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Is it mandatory? 4 MR. CORDOVA: One or two a week is average, 5 probably, for the officers, one or two double shifts a 6 week. Some can't get enough, actually. It's a good 7 problem to have. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, by double shifts, do you 9 mean that they are -- they stay there for 16 hours? 10 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you have, just on 12 your unit, one or two officers who will choose to or be 13 required to do a 16-hour shift every week? 14 MR. CORDOVA: They go by seniority, and a 15 telestaff system controls, or tries to spread that 16 overtime evenly across the board, so you know, not just 17 newer officers are working the overtime. The veteran 18 officers need to do their share, also. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Is there a union involved in 20 your shop? 21 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Are correctional officers part 244 1 of the union? 2 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: So, how does that play in the 4 allocation of overtime? 5 MR. CORDOVA: It's by seniority. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: By seniority. 7 MR. CORDOVA: Those with the -- obviously, the 8 higher seniority have the option of taking the 9 overtime. Then eventually, if it's not filled, you 10 have a less senior staff member take that overtime. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And then -- 12 MR. CORDOVA: But it's controlled, so not just 13 the same person is working multiple, and others are 14 doing none or one. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Cpt. Maestas, how about seg? 16 Is overtime, double shifts, a routine occurrence? 17 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: That can be pretty tough. I 19 mean, that's a -- I mean, corrections is a high-stress 20 industry, and seg seems like it's a particular -- it's 21 not a picnic in there. 22 MR. MAESTAS: In my units, when they work 245 1 overtime, they have to be off probation to work the 2 unit. So my units get filled -- I have extra staff. 3 So I won't have a high number of overtime inside my 4 unit. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, I see. So, while your 6 staff may be required to do overtime, they're going to 7 do it in some other unit. 8 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So they don't have to 10 put up with flying feces for 16 hours. 11 MR. MAESTAS: No. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Not necessarily. Okay. Now, 13 you've got a lot of cameras in your facility. And if 14 you -- we've asked about, you know, where things might 15 happen, and so forth, but let me just go at it one more 16 angle. 17 If you had one more camera for seg, where 18 would you put it? And assume that it can swivel and 19 tilt and zoom and -- 20 MR. MAESTAS: I would say inside the center of 21 the whole day room, and -- but it wouldn't -- it would 22 just do a, like, what do they call it, 360? 246 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, it would be a fish eye. 2 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, a fish eye, exactly. 3 That's what I would put. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And why is that? 5 MR. MAESTAS: In every pod. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: You've got somebody sitting on 7 that dais or that platform 24/7. 8 MR. MAESTAS: Mm-hmm. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And he's got -- he or she has 10 got direct line of sight. And everybody there is -- is 11 it double-celled? 12 MR. MAESTAS: Double -- 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 14 MR. MAESTAS: Double, triple-celled, depending 15 on what -- but in -- the way I would like it is the 16 times when you have numerous inmates out, a skirmish 17 happens over here, that camera is panning -- and the 18 camera head is here -- the camera in the center would 19 pick up everything, and would have total observation. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: So you're concerned about 21 diversions. 22 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 247 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. How about you, Cpt. 2 Cordova? 3 MR. CORDOVA: Pretty much the same answer. 4 More cameras, obviously. It's pricey, but the ones 5 that are, say, in the housing units, panning, as long 6 as you're not actively monitoring that camera, it's 7 panning the whole time. 8 So, where the camera is pointed here, you're 9 having something going on over here. So the inmates 10 time their -- 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 12 MR. CORDOVA: -- bad behavior, so to speak. 13 Something that's centrally -- or located so as to be 14 able to view the whole pod at the same time constantly, 15 where, you know, say you have an incident, control 16 takes over the panning option to the camera, it's 17 monitoring the actual incident, but you still have 18 another camera that is still -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 20 MR. CORDOVA: Actively monitoring the whole 21 pod. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: So somebody can get let into 248 1 or sneak into a janitorial closet while it's panning 2 the other part of seg eight? 3 MR. CORDOVA: Mm-hmm. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And now, I noticed that 5 you had some of those fish eye, or bubble cameras in 6 the second tier of the dormitory style pods. I don't 7 remember where it was, but the -- 8 MR. MAESTAS: Those aren't -- 9 MR. TORRES: Care unit -- HSU has those. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: I thought it was in -- 11 MR. MAESTAS: Because what you're -- 12 MR. MCFARLAND: In the general population -- 13 MR. MAESTAS: What you were looking at, it's 14 for our PMT monitoring system. It's a locator, is what 15 those -- they are the same type of plastic, they look 16 like cameras. It's just a locator. Every time an 17 officer walks by there, it sets a locator alarm to the 18 control. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: No, but I remember seeing on 20 the second tier, where you have bunks -- these are not 21 cells, but the second tier, the bunks -- I was 22 concerned that the officer in the pod would not be able 249 1 to see behind those bunks. And then we noticed that he 2 had a fish eye camera up there that could see between 3 the bunks. 4 MR. CORDOVA: Yes, that's HSU. 5 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, that's HSU. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. HSU, health services 7 unit? 8 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that part of the detox -- 10 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, program. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 12 MR. MAESTAS: Psychological, yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Gentlemen, you have a high 14 number of Hispanic inmates, correct? 15 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: And you have a high number of 18 Hispanic staff, as well, is that correct? 19 MR. CORDOVA: Yes. 20 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What's your 22 understanding or opinion of what the general attitude 250 1 of an Hispanic inmate in your facility would have 2 toward an obviously gay individual, gay male? 3 MR. MAESTAS: Staff, or -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, let's start with an 5 inmate. What do you think the opinion of your average 6 Hispanic inmate at MDC thinks of a homosexual, someone 7 who is obviously homosexual, flamboyant, known to be, 8 doesn't deny it? 9 MR. CORDOVA: I think that person is a 10 potential target. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: A target for? 12 MR. CORDOVA: Sexual assault, or assault, in 13 general. 14 MR. MAESTAS: About the same, yes. 15 MR. CORDOVA: And there is -- I had mentioned 16 earlier, there is a small population of, obviously, 17 homosexual inmates that get along just fine in 18 population, and aren't victimized. But some could be, 19 yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that because they 21 are -- the Hispanic inmate predator might find them an 22 easier prey, or is it because they are held in 251 1 disregard, and rape or assault would be a means of 2 expressing their disregard or their punishment for 3 them? 4 MR. CORDOVA: I think both. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Cpt. Maestas, do you have an 6 opinion on that? 7 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, that -- probably both, on 8 the fact of what Cpt. Cordova said. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Some might think they are an 10 easy target, and others might think, "And besides, I 11 want to teach them a lesson?" 12 MR. MAESTAS: Yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. There it is. Your 14 facility indicated that in calendar 2007 there were 16 15 attempted suicides and one successful suicide. No 16 attempted homicides. 17 Does that -- and you mentioned five attempts 18 in seg in five months, four-and-a-half or five months, 19 Cpt. Maestas. Does that -- do either of those numbers 20 seem high to you, in your corrections experience? 21 MR. MAESTAS: In my unit, or the total 22 numbers, the 16 -- 252 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, let's start with your 2 unit, seg. 3 MR. MAESTAS: Three of them were with the same 4 inmate, so -- 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh. 6 MR. MAESTAS: And the other two were two 7 similar inmates that behavior -- they weren't out to 8 kill themselves, they were just for attention. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Were any of them 10 reported to have either been a sexual assault victim or 11 predator? 12 MR. MAESTAS: No, Sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: So I think you said earlier, 14 the meaning you made out of the five or more of them 15 was a number of them were off their meds? 16 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, Sir, their psychotropic 17 meds. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. Now, I asked you right 19 before we started as to whether you had any personal 20 involvement in any -- in the investigation of any of 21 the inmate-on-inmate or staff-on-inmate sexual assaults 22 in 2007, and you said no. 253 1 Let me ask you, a couple of them involve the 2 alleged involvement of a staff member in -- cooperating 3 with inmates to, in one case, let an inmate let several 4 inmates into a cell, where the cell -- the victim was 5 raped. Can you see how that could happen? 6 Let's assume for a moment that it happened, 7 let's assume for a moment that it's true. How could 8 that happen? How could, during a graveyard shift, or 9 any shift, could a correctional officer, you know, open 10 up a cell and let a couple of predators rape an inmate? 11 Do you see that as -- 12 MR. CORDOVA: It could happen. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: -- as far-fetched, or -- 14 MR. CORDOVA: It could happen. Say, you know, 15 with our -- a graveyard officer just leaves inmates 16 out. I mean, we have cause and observation in 17 segregation, for example, but if he just let somebody 18 out and popped doors from his panel, I mean, it could 19 happen. 20 But, you know, it could also happen with keys. 21 If it's going to -- if they want to let this incident 22 happen, it could. And that's where the training and 254 1 orientation, and that stuff, you know, and the 2 accountability also comes in. You know, if you're 3 letting it happen, you're accountable. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: In your understanding, if one 5 of your staff cooperated in that way, they didn't lay a 6 finger on the victim, but they let them in, would they 7 be a -- would they have committed a crime? 8 MR. CORDOVA: If, yes, they're aware of a 9 sexual assault taking place, they need to report it, 10 yes. If they're allowing it, I'm sure they're 11 accountable for that, also. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you have an opinion, 13 Cpt. Maestas? 14 MR. MAESTAS: Yes, I was going to just add 15 they would be, like, considered an accessory, as far 16 as -- for opening that door, for letting it happen. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, okay. Okay, anything 18 else? 19 (No response.) 20 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Well, I want to 21 thank you very much, Captains, for your testimony. We 22 better keep plunging ahead here. This time we will 255 1 call the third panel, Ms. Charisse Cook, Mr. Henry 2 Perea, and Correctional Officer Jason Ellis. 3 (Pause.) 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Would you raise your right 5 hand, please? 6 Whereupon, 7 CHARISSE COOK, JASON ELLIS 8 and HENRY PEREA 9 were called as witnesses and, having been 10 first duly sworn, were examined and testified as 11 follows: 12 EXAMINATION 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. Officer Ellis, 14 would you please give us your full name and title? 15 MR. ELLIS: Jason Robert Ellis. I'm a 16 sergeant at MDC, and I have been working at BCMDC since 17 it opened. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: In 2002? 19 MR. ELLIS: Yes, Sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And you started as a CO 21 in 2002? 22 MR. ELLIS: I started as a CO in 2001, March. 256 1 So about eight-and-a-half years. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did you become 3 sergeant? 4 MR. ELLIS: August 2007. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Right about the time of the 6 survey? 7 MR. ELLIS: Yes, Sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Good afternoon, Ms. 9 Cook. What is your full name and title, please? 10 MS. COOK: Charisse Renee Cook, and I am a 11 deputy chief. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did you become deputy 13 chief? 14 MS. COOK: A year-and-a-half ago. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: So, April? 16 MS. COOK: Yes, something like that. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: March/April of 2007? May of 18 2007? 19 MS. COOK: I think it was earlier than that. 20 I think, like, August, September, something like that, 21 because I was acting for a year, and then I got 22 promoted. 257 1 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. So you were acting 2 deputy chief -- 3 MS. COOK: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: -- from the fall of 2006? 5 MS. COOK: From -- I came back to work from 6 maternity leave in January, and I got promoted -- I was 7 back for, like, two weeks, then I got promoted. So 8 then I was upgraded for a year, and then I got 9 promoted. So I think it was in August. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Of? 11 MS. COOK: Of 2007, maybe. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Last year? 13 MS. COOK: Yes. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, and that's when you 15 became the permanent deputy chief? 16 MS. COOK: Official, yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 18 MS. COOK: Yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And so you were acting 20 in -- some time in August of 2006? 21 MS. COOK: Yes. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Okay, Mr. Perea? 258 1 MR. PEREA: Henry Leonard Perea, and I am a 2 deputy chief. I was promoted to deputy chief in 3 December of 2006. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: And what are your 5 responsibilities, Mr. Perea? 6 MR. PEREA: Recently changed. I was the 7 administrative deputy chief in charge of administrative 8 services. And currently I am in charge of the 9 McClendon lawsuit. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that your sole 11 responsibility, currently? 12 MR. PEREA: It is. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And are your marching orders 14 to get that safety checked off? 15 MR. PEREA: It is. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, reducing 17 overcrowding is your number one and only job 18 description right now? 19 MR. PEREA: That's part of it, yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: What else is part of it? 21 MR. PEREA: Well, there is also the 22 psychiatric piece. 259 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. That's another thing 2 that has to get checked off to get this lawsuit out of 3 your hair? 4 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And as the deputy chief 6 for administration in August -- as of August of 2007, 7 you were in that role, correct? 8 MR. PEREA: In that role, I was in charge of 9 several other units. I was in charge of the internal 10 affairs unit, kind of providing oversight to the 11 training unit, the safety unit. I looked over -- I 12 provided oversight for some union -- some of the union 13 issues, collective bargaining. I think that's about 14 it. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, in August of 2007, 16 you were the -- you had primary supervision of the 17 internal affairs unit. 18 MR. PEREA: I did. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And that means you were 20 involved in any and every allegation of sexual assault 21 at that time in MDC, is that correct? 22 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 260 1 MR. MCFARLAND: There is nothing that would 2 have happened that would not have run by your desk in 3 the area of sexual assault, is that correct? 4 MR. PEREA: That's true. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: It could not have -- unless 6 you were the object of the investigation, it should 7 have -- you should have been intimately involved in the 8 process in 2007. 9 MR. PEREA: For the most part, yes. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, in any part. I'm just 11 trying to -- is there any case you're aware of in 2007 12 involving sexual assault that you didn't have any 13 personal involvement in, in the investigation? You 14 just found out about it later. 15 MR. PEREA: I should have been involved in 16 most of them. Back then, we also had a -- when I first 17 was in the position, we had a position of major, and we 18 had a couple of majors who were involved in some of the 19 internal affairs process. So they handled a lot of the 20 cases. 21 That's not to say it wouldn't come across my 22 desk, but I'm just saying that there were more folks 261 1 involved. It's been streamlined since then. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And, Ms. Cook, what was 3 your involvement, as of 2007, as the then-acting deputy 4 chief, and then, after August, the permanent deputy 5 chief? What were your responsibilities? 6 MS. COOK: I oversee security of the facility. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And any other 8 responsibilities? 9 MS. COOK: Just oversee of security. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 11 MS. COOK: Because it's a lot of stuff. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Not that that's not enough, 13 yes. 14 MS. COOK: Right. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: That's fine, yes. So, in that 16 capacity, what was your involvement in investigating 17 and the disposition of any sexual assault complaint? 18 MS. COOK: Actually, it would first start with 19 wherever the incident occurred, if it occurred in a 20 unit, or whatever, then you know, that would be the 21 sergeant or lieutenant. And then they would do their 22 report, and it would go to the captain. And after the 262 1 captain is done, then they would give it to me, and 2 then I will review it and then send it up. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: And where would you send it? 4 MS. COOK: To the chief. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, when would Mr. Perea get 6 involved? When would he see it? 7 MS. COOK: If it's -- if we had 8 something -- if we had internal affairs involved, we 9 both would be involved with it. But normally the 10 captain will give it, you know, to me, and then we 11 would both see it. And then we will -- and then the 12 chief will be the last one to determine what we're 13 going to do. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, it ordinarily would 15 come from the line officer to the sergeant, or 16 lieutenant, then to the captain, and then it would 17 jointly go to -- 18 MS. COOK: Up to us. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: To you, and to Mr. Perea? 20 MS. COOK: Yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: And then you would make a 22 joint recommendation to the chief, Torres? 263 1 MS. COOK: Yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, Mr. Perea, what 3 cases involving sexual assault would you not get 4 involved in, understanding that some cases of sexual 5 assault Ms. Cook would be the sole person between the 6 captain and Chief Torres, and in some cases you would 7 both get involved. Am I misunderstanding that, or -- 8 MR. PEREA: I was pretty much involved in all 9 cases. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 11 MR. PEREA: I had my -- I provided input, 12 whether it was a joint recommendation through the 13 deputy chief, or whether it was an advisory or 14 recommendation straight to the chief. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Were there any cases of sexual 16 assault that Ms. Cook was not involved in, but that 17 went through your -- past your desk? 18 MR. PEREA: I'm pretty sure she was involved 19 in most. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, all right. Sgt. Ellis, 21 what training did you get about sexual assault 22 prevention and investigation prior to 2007? 264 1 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, when I first came 2 through academy, I did a two-week training, because I 3 was a lateral transfer. Every year after that we have 4 had 40-hour blocks, and probably an hour, 5 hour-and-a-half of that, had to do with the training 6 about reporting incidents that come from inmates. 7 Other than that, that's it. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What training, if any, 9 have you had as a sergeant at MDC? And you were 10 promoted in August of 2007, about the time of this 11 survey. 12 MR. ELLIS: Yes, Sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: So, what additional training 14 did you receive in August of 2007 about sexual assault 15 that you hadn't already gotten as a correctional 16 officer? 17 MR. ELLIS: It's the basic -- sorry, Mr. 18 Chairman -- the basic 40-hour block every year. And 19 then, when I became a sergeant it was a two-week period 20 of OJT and -- 21 MR. MCFARLAND: On-the-job training? 22 MR. ELLIS: With another -- with a supervisor 265 1 that had been a supervisor prior, and pretty much the 2 same training every year. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, what training did 4 you get as a correctional officer, going back to the 5 original 40-hour academy training -- no, it wasn't 6 academy training, it was the 40 hours -- 7 MR. ELLIS: In-service? 8 MR. MCFARLAND: In-service. What training did 9 you get about staff-on-inmate sexual misconduct? Or 10 was it all about inmate-on-inmate? 11 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I believe that's 12 part of the employee misconduct, or employee conduct 13 training, that it's not allowed, and it's just frowned 14 upon and not allowed. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Was there any specific 16 training given in that in-service about whether staff 17 sexual misconduct with inmates is a crime? Was that 18 ever discussed? 19 MR. ELLIS: Being a -- not in that training, 20 but being in corrections for as long as I have been, I 21 know it's a crime, and I know it's not right to do 22 that. 266 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So you just can't remember if 2 they said it in the training, or you just knew it? 3 MR. ELLIS: Right, but I knew -- I know it's a 4 crime. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, there was some 6 testimony earlier about the presence of a union. And 7 you've been involved in some leadership position on 8 behalf of the union, is that correct? 9 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I was union 10 president for almost three years. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. From -- 12 MR. ELLIS: From the middle of 2004, maybe, 13 2005, 2006, and April of 2006. 2007, sorry. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, in -- do you 15 have -- would you like to see correctional officers at 16 MDC receive any additional training in sexual assault 17 prevention or investigation? 18 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, to this day I think 19 any training -- any more training would be very 20 helpful. But I know that we are taking the right steps 21 to address the PREA issues, and staff has been trained 22 up to date. 267 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 2 MR. ELLIS: It would be good to get more, 3 though, yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: What is your opinion of the 5 state of overcrowding? You've got 122 percent of rated 6 capacity. Does that concern you? 7 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, it's -- it concerns 8 me for officer safety and inmate safety. I think, 9 through the meetings that I used to go to with Mr. 10 Dantis and the chief, the population management 11 meetings, I think the county is taking a step forward 12 in trying to help adjust the system, get fixed. 13 But I know, yes, it's very alarming, just to 14 see the population go over the exceeded bed. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: And is it going in the right 16 direction, or is it getting more crowded? 17 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I believe it is 18 going in the right direction for the safety of all of 19 us. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you have an opinion, 21 or some idea about how to reduce overcrowding at MDC? 22 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I am open to ideas, 268 1 but yes, I'm not really in the capacity to give my 2 opinion out there. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. In all your time at 4 MDC, have you ever had an inmate come to you and say, 5 "I have been sexually assaulted," or raped, or 6 pressured, either by staff or inmate? 7 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I don't believe I 8 have been, no. Not to me. But I have encountered a 9 fellow supervisor that had an inmate come to him, and I 10 helped him go through the right channels and get the 11 report started, and stuff. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And when did that event 13 happen? 14 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I believe it was 15 with an inmate by the name of SOMEBODY -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, I don't want to know 17 their name. 18 MR. ELLIS: Sorry, sorry. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Just when. 20 MR. ELLIS: Oh, back in -- 21 MR. MCFARLAND: That would have been 2007? 22 MR. ELLIS: 2007, somewhere around there. 269 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, okay. Well, there are 2 quite a few incidents -- incident reports. And your 3 panel would be, it sounds like, the most knowledgeable 4 about investigations. And, indeed, Mr. Perea and Ms. 5 Cook's signature appears to be on quite a few of them. 6 So, why don't -- but I want to protect the 7 identities of any of the complainants, any of the 8 inmates. So I am going to just walk through the 9 allegation or charges. And there is the list 10 that -- there are 16 incidents of either 11 staff-on-inmate or inmate-on-inmate alleged sexual 12 assault, so -- during calendar 2007. So, we won't 13 necessarily go in that order, or in -- notice they're 14 not in chronological order there. 15 But let me ask you first about an incident 16 that occurred on -- in January of 2007, reference 17 number 531, and this involved an allegation that 18 a -- that the victim was sexual assaulted by three 19 inmates, that a -- that two correctional officers 20 opened the door to his cell, and allowed these three 21 inmates to come in, put a sheet over his head, call him 22 a rat, and then sexually assault him. 270 1 Did any of you -- were any of you involved in 2 this case? 3 MR. AUH: Chairman, if I might make a 4 suggestion? 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 6 MR. AUH: We both have the same index sheets, 7 with the corresponding numbers. So if you could refer 8 to the number -- 9 MR. MCFARLAND: We're talking about number six 10 right now. If the inmate's name helps you 11 there -- these are all grievances. 12 (Pause.) 13 MR. MCFARLAND: This occurred in F-4, cell 14 number five. 15 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, do we let you know 16 if we had no involvement, or what involvement we did, 17 or -- 18 MS. CHUNN: Yes. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Did you have any involvement? 20 MR. ELLIS: No. No, I didn't. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Ms. Cook, you had some 22 involvement, did you not? 271 1 MS. COOK: I'm trying to recall. It's so long 2 ago. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. I'm looking at tab six, 4 from all the material that was provided. And it 5 appears to -- you have a signature there, on -- 6 MS. COOK: Okay, okay. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: -- I can't tell. That might 8 be May 4, 2007, "No further action required." Is that 9 your signature? Oh, you're not -- 10 MS. COOK: No, this one -- 11 MR. MCFARLAND: You're not looking at the same 12 document. But go to the very first page under -- 13 MS. COOK: Okay. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Is that your signature? 15 MS. COOK: Yes, that's me. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And then, the next 17 document is dated April 18, and that's a memorandum to 18 you from one of your captains? 19 MS. COOK: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Does this refresh your 21 recollection on this? 22 (Witness examines the document.) 272 1 MS. COOK: Yes, yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. The 3 documents -- we can go into them in particular, if it's 4 necessary -- but the documents indicate that the inmate 5 was gay and confessed that "all occurrences were 6 consensual." "Bernalillo County is not pursuing any 7 charges at this time, and the case has been closed. No 8 further incident to report." 9 Do you have any idea why charges were not 10 pressed, and the case was closed? 11 MS. COOK: I believe the inmate did not want 12 to press any charges on the situation. It says, "After 13 investigation, BCSO inmate SOMEBODY confessed that the 14 occurrence was consensual, and the BCSO did not pursue 15 with any charges." 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. Well, what is your 17 understanding -- well, let me back up. As deputy chief 18 at that time, acting deputy chief of security at MDC, 19 it was your responsibility to make a recommendation to 20 Chief Torres as to what action, what disposition should 21 be made of this. Is that correct? 22 MS. COOK: Mm-hmm, yes, Sir. 273 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, what difference 2 would it make to you that -- if an inmate said, "Well, 3 the -- this sexual act was consensual?" 4 MS. COOK: Well, we still, you know, notified 5 BCSO. And after that, when we gave them over our 6 information, then they determine if they're going to 7 press charges. So we did what we're supposed to do. 8 We still notified BCSO, did everything you're supposed 9 to, and it came out that they weren't going to press 10 any charges, the inmate wasn't pressing charges, 11 because -- and then the BCSO didn't go through with it. 12 So -- 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And BCSO is? 14 MS. COOK: The sheriff's -- 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Bernalillo -- 16 MS. COOK: Yes. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: The county sheriff's office? 18 MS. COOK: Yes, I'm sorry. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 20 MR. PEREA: If I may, Mr. Chair? 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes? 22 MR. PEREA: Part of our internal affairs 274 1 process indicates that if we have an incident that 2 occurs that appears to be a crime, or of criminal 3 intent, we immediately send that over to the sheriff's 4 department. That's what we did at this time. 5 At that time, our investigation usually 6 remains idle, if you will, until we receive report from 7 the sheriff's department as to what is going on, so 8 that we don't jeopardize their criminal case. 9 In this case, this inmate confessed to the 10 sheriff's department that it was all consensual. 11 Whether that is the truth or not, or whether he just 12 didn't want to tell the truth to the sheriff's 13 department, this is what we go on. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, all right. I understand 15 you don't make the decision as to whether to charge. 16 What I am wondering is, did you make a 17 recommendation to the chief, Ms. Cook, as to 18 whether -- as to if this case should just be closed. 19 He says it was consensual, or -- you know, what was 20 your recommendation? 21 MS. COOK: Well, basically, when we get 22 everything from the captain, you know, we notify the 275 1 chief to let him know that this happened, and BCSO was 2 notified. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 4 MS. COOK: And then, from there, we just wait 5 to see what they say. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: I see. So you don't make -- 7 MS. COOK: And then after it's -- yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry, go ahead. 9 MS. COOK: Yes, and after -- we just wait 10 until they're done. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. So you don't make 12 a recommendation on charging, or on other disposition. 13 You wait to see what the sheriff's office has to say? 14 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is consensual sex 16 between inmates -- is that a crime in New Mexico, in 17 your understanding? 18 MS. COOK: It is not a crime, if it's 19 consensual. But if the one person was a predator and 20 did that, yes, it's a crime, that I see. 21 But they don't -- you know, it's not that we 22 condone it or anything. They're not supposed to do 276 1 that, regardless. Because if we see them do any sexual 2 whatever, we write them up. If they get caught, if 3 they're doing something they're not supposed to, yes, 4 we write them up. 5 But as far as them -- if someone either, you 6 know, forcefully, you know, did something to an 7 inmate -- yes, you know, they will -- you know, they 8 will get charged for that. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. All right. So, your 10 understanding is that consensual sex among inmates in 11 MDC or anywhere in New Mexico corrections is not a 12 crime, but it's a disciplinary infraction. 13 MS. COOK: Yes. Yes, Sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Next event I would like 15 to ask about is event number three, occurred on March 16 27, involving a female victim in the bottom tier of 17 seg -- the janitor's closet in the bottom tier of seg 18 five. 19 This would have been before Cpt. Maestas was 20 heading up the seg unit. 21 (Pause.) 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And I believe the MDC final 277 1 action form has the signature of both Ms. Cook and Mr. 2 Perea, is that correct? 3 MS. COOK: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Perea, is that your 5 signature? 6 MR. PEREA: Yes, it is. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, this case -- what 8 do you recall about the facts of this case, other than 9 what is written down there that may refresh your 10 recollection? Do you remember -- 11 MS. COOK: Yes, I'm trying -- 12 MR. MCFARLAND: -- investigating or disposing 13 of this case? 14 (Witness examines the document.) 15 MR. PEREA: I don't recall what the outcome of 16 this case was. I know that we did send this over to 17 our then-external investigating company, which was 18 Robert Caswell Investigations, to look into and to 19 determine -- to investigate it and to determine what 20 may have occurred. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, a -- do you know what 22 happened, Ms. Cook, ultimately happened, as a result of 278 1 this? 2 MS. COOK: Yes, I do. The officer that no 3 longer works with us, she didn't do her job, and -- in 4 reference to not properly locking down the inmates. 5 And that is -- and then something, you know, took 6 place. 7 But that is what I recall, in reference to, I 8 think, the officer. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And am I understanding the 10 facts here are that a male inmate on -- who was part of 11 a detail to clean the female showers -- 12 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: -- was allowed to get into the 14 janitor's closet by one of your correctional officers 15 who no longer works for you, and to thereafter have sex 16 in that closet with one of the female inmates? 17 MS. COOK: Yes. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And that the female inmate 19 alleges it was against her will? 20 MS. COOK: Right. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Do either of you recall what 22 was done, other than the officer misconduct, what was 279 1 done in the way of criminal charges after RCI completed 2 their investigation? 3 MR. PEREA: We also sent this case to the 4 Bernalillo County sheriff's department. They reviewed 5 it, and I think their response was that there was not 6 enough evidence to move forward on anything against the 7 inmate. I think that's the point when it was filed. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: How could -- given the fact 9 that the seg units have rotating cameras, how could 10 this happen? How could an officer -- if this, in fact, 11 happened, and I gather the fact that an officer lost 12 her job over it, I take it that you were persuaded it 13 did happen -- well, let me ask you that. 14 Did it happen? 15 MS. COOK: Yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And, as a matter of 17 fact, that inmate was pregnant -- 18 MS. COOK: I -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: -- thereafter. 20 MS. COOK: Oh, I don't -- I can't remember. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 22 MS. COOK: I don't know. 280 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, how do you understand 2 that it could happen, for an officer to let two inmates 3 of the opposite sex in a female facility into a closet, 4 and leave them there long enough for them to have 5 intercourse, given the camera and the direct 6 supervision that happens at MDC? 7 MS. COOK: Really, I think officers do 8 not -- I don't know what they're thinking. Because, 9 you know, there is a camera there, and they do things 10 that they know they can eventually get caught, and they 11 just -- some just don't think. 12 And they -- at that time, they just 13 think -- sometimes they think they're above the law, 14 like, "Oh, I can do this," and with this incident I 15 believe that, you know, this officer did not think, and 16 just did it, you know? 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, as a matter of fact, it 18 sounds like she did think about it. The investigation 19 indicates that she had a bet with other female inmates 20 that she could get the victim into the closet with the 21 male inmate. Isn't that correct? 22 MS. COOK: I don't believe -- I don't know. I 281 1 can't remember. I don't recall that. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 3 MS. COOK: But I know that the officer 4 that -- you know, that was working, you know, 5 she -- you know, her conduct was -- just was not right, 6 you know. 7 And like I said, there is officers there that 8 do -- or that had worked with us in the past that would 9 just do things that they're not supposed to, like they 10 think they can do whatever they want to do. 11 MR. PEREA: And if I may, Mr. Chair? 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, Sir? 13 MR. PEREA: In a normal circumstance, where 14 you have officers, you know, we certainly don't want 15 this one officer -- this one officer is not 16 representative of the fine men and women we have 17 working there. 18 This officer was inappropriate, was part of 19 the scheme, if you will, to allow this to happen. That 20 being said, our cameras pan from one end to the other, 21 so certainly there is opportunity for this officer to 22 allow these two individuals to go into a closet, do 282 1 something. 2 But in a normal circumstance, the 3 officer -- there being a good, trained officer not out 4 to do an inappropriate thing of this nature, these 5 things would not happen. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Let's look at incident number 7 four, occurring on April 24, 2007. And, Officer Ellis, 8 if you could jump in if you have any personal knowledge 9 of these -- and I can -- 10 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chair -- 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Maybe they can share those 12 lists with you, so -- 13 MR. PEREA: We're not in a sharing mood right 14 now. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 16 MR. PEREA: Sorry, Jason. 17 MS. COOK: Seg seven. 18 (Pause.) 19 MR. MCFARLAND: While they're looking there, 20 Officer Ellis, do -- in your experience, do male 21 inmates frequently get put on details to work in female 22 units? 283 1 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I don't remember 2 that exact incident. But I believe that that crew that 3 that inmate was on was a shower cleaning crew. And to 4 keep up with ACA standards, we need to keep the showers 5 clean, power-washed. And I believe that's why he was 6 in there, to clean. 7 Unfortunately, he didn't clean -- or he did 8 clean and he tried to do something else, or did 9 something else. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Right. 11 MR. ELLIS: But inmates throughout the jail 12 are on cleaning crews, and they are checked by the -- I 13 believe it's the grievance supervisor, disciplinary 14 supervisor, and they are cleared to go to work. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: So the answer is yes, male 16 inmates can be on details in the female units, is that 17 correct? 18 MR. ELLIS: Only if they're supervised, Sir. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Only if they're supervised. 20 MR. ELLIS: Yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, Ms. Cook, can I 22 interrupt you for a second and just ask on this -- on 284 1 the previous case, what happened to the supervisor of 2 the detail? I'm not talking about number four, I'm 3 jumping back to number three. 4 MS. COOK: The -- 5 MR. MCFARLAND: The incident in the janitor's 6 closet. 7 MS. COOK: Okay. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Officer Ellis was just saying 9 that a male cannot be on detail in a female unit 10 without a supervisor. Was the supervisor AWOL, or was 11 the supervisor present, or disciplined, or was that the 12 officer who was fired? 13 MR. ELLIS: I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, that -- I 14 meant supervised. So the CO was supposed to be 15 supervising -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, I see. 17 MR. ELLIS: Supervised, by not a sergeant or 18 lieutenant, but supervised, under supervision by a 19 correctional officer. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: So there is no additional 21 correctional officer going around with the male detail 22 into the female unit? 285 1 MR. ELLIS: I don't believe so at that time. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Ms. Cook, do you recall, was 3 this officer who was canned assigned to that pod, or 4 was she accompanying the male detail into the female 5 unit? 6 MS. COOK: I don't recall. Let me look. I 7 believe that she was assigned to that unit. 8 (Witness examines the document.) 9 MS. COOK: Yes, yes. The officer was assigned 10 to the unit. So they would have been the inmates to 11 the unit, so she can supervise them. So they dropped 12 the inmates off. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 14 MS. COOK: Yes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So there was no 16 supervisor that came from elsewhere into -- 17 MS. COOK: Right. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: -- accompanying them into the 19 shower. They just handed them, so to speak, over to 20 the officer in question in the pod. She accompanied 21 them to the janitorial closet, and evidently waited 22 until the video camera was not watching, and joined in 286 1 the fun. 2 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. All right, back to 4 number four. Do you recall your involvement in this 5 case, either of you, Ms. Cook or Mr. Perea? 6 MR. PEREA: My involvement in this case would 7 basically be to oversee the process of the internal 8 affairs, and to send this case out to the -- I believe 9 it was Robert Caswell Investigations, at the time. It 10 was also sent out to the Bernalillo County sheriff's 11 department. 12 And Robert Caswell visited with the Bernalillo 13 County sheriff's department, and they exchanged 14 information. And it was concluded that this inmate 15 admitted that no sexual assault actually took place, 16 and that -- basically, that no sexual assault took 17 place, and she refused to give a statement, both to the 18 investigators in this case. 19 I think, short of being cooperative, it's a 20 very difficult thing to prove, one way or the other, if 21 the actual person is no longer being a cooperative 22 witness. And I hope we're talking about the same case, 287 1 because I'm looking at it in front of me. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: We're talking about a case 3 where the victim claims she was sexually assaulted by 4 another inmate, fondling her upper body. 5 MR. PEREA: Would that be number four? 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 7 MR. PEREA: Yes. 8 MS. CHUNN: So then, Deputy Perea, are you 9 saying, then, that the witness -- that the victim 10 recanted? 11 MR. PEREA: The victim recanted not only to 12 the sheriff's department, but also to our internal 13 affairs unit, and also to the -- our medical staff. 14 MS. CHUNN: The Robert -- is it Caswell? 15 MR. PEREA: Robert Caswell Investigations. 16 MS. CHUNN: Do they provide investigations for 17 your facility on a contract basis? 18 MR. PEREA: They did at the time. These are 19 retired Albuquerque police officers, Bernalillo County 20 sheriff's officers, with, I'm certain, years of 21 expertise of conducting investigations. We did have a 22 contract with them at the time. 288 1 And we currently still do, but since we have 2 now an internal affairs unit within MDC, we don't use 3 them as much. 4 MS. CHUNN: Has your internal affairs staff 5 been trained to do investigations? 6 MR. PEREA: They have. We have sent them to 7 training outside of the facility. And also, through 8 our human resources, through the sheriff's department, 9 they have received training in conducting 10 investigations. 11 MS. CHUNN: I recognize that 12 being -- testifying before this group has got to be a 13 difficult thing. When I say "difficult," nerve 14 wracking. I can put myself in your situation, and 15 know -- and remember what it feels like to be there. 16 However, it's been just a little better than a 17 year, and it seems to me that you would have a little 18 bit more, shall we say, present knowledge about some of 19 these cases. And am I to assume, then, that because 20 it's been -- much of your investigation has been 21 contracted out, that you were not in a hands-on 22 position with some of the details with some of these 289 1 cases? 2 MR. PEREA: That's not true. Many of these 3 cases, we are kept in the loop, for the most part, and 4 the chief is briefed. The however is we have hundreds 5 and hundreds of cases passing through our desk, you 6 know, and it's very difficult to keep tabs with, you 7 know, the 10 cases that you've got shown on here on 8 this piece of paper. 9 MS. CHUNN: Sixteen. 10 MR. PEREA: It's very difficult. So I mean, 11 we have hundreds of cases passing through our desk, of 12 different situations going on within the jail. 13 MS. CHUNN: Are many of those cases about 14 sexual assault and sexual victimization? Are the 15 majority of them about that? 16 MR. PEREA: The majority are just of employee 17 misconduct, whether it be through fraternization, 18 whether it be through insubordination, AWOL, you name 19 it. There is just a majority of cases that pass Deputy 20 Chief Cook's office, and mine at the time, and 21 it's -- when we see these 14 cases, I 22 basically -- certainly didn't come here prepared -- I 290 1 didn't know what list you had, and what you were 2 anticipating, what you were going to ask. 3 MS. CHUNN: Thank you. I appreciate your 4 candor. 5 Quite honestly, I am wondering -- because it's 6 important to me that we provide a balanced review of 7 what has happened at these facilities. 8 Is that a function of having hired 150 people, 9 sort of all at one fell swoop in time, when you made 10 that transition from city to county? I mean, how do 11 you explain the level of cases that you are having that 12 come before you when you appear to have a training 13 program where you provide at least 40 hours a 14 week -- 40 hours a year -- about relevant topics? 15 I am trying to be clear with this question. I 16 am trying to understand, then, why the level of 17 activity with internal investigations, when you already 18 seem to have in place a coherent training program. 19 MR. PEREA: I certainly won't take anything 20 away from our training program, it is one of the best, 21 you know, out there. 22 During the transition, it's very true we lost 291 1 close to 150 officers. That put us in a big hole. 2 Trying to get out of that hole was very, very difficult 3 at the pay rate that we were making at the time. 4 It's -- it didn't matter how much training we 5 gave them. The officers that didn't make it online, 6 they wouldn't last very long, because they were getting 7 burned out in the overtime, they were working three, 8 four, five overtimes in a row. That's just way, way 9 too much, you know, your brain can't function. 10 So, we were in this vicious cycle, if you 11 will. And as we were bringing them in, they were 12 quitting on us, just that quick. 13 MS. CHUNN: It sounds as though you also had 14 some who were not performing as required. 15 MR. PEREA: Absolutely. 16 MS. CHUNN: So, in addition to those who 17 decided to leave of their own volition, you also had 18 some that you wished to help move out because of their 19 inappropriateness for the organization. Is that true? 20 MR. PEREA: Yes, Ma'am, that is absolutely 21 true. 22 Also, internally, we had -- we were dealing 292 1 with our internal issues, and that had to do with our 2 supervisors being educated. And they were also 3 frustrated, so there were some supervisors who we had 4 to deal with. And, you know, when you have a new 5 officer coming online, you know, you expect them to be 6 confronted with a supervisor who is going to take them 7 in, and show them, and educate them. So we had to deal 8 with that situation. And there were a few supervisors 9 that no longer are there. 10 So, we were going through all this process, 11 and like I said, currently now enjoy a nine percent 12 vacancy rate. And hopefully, now the education, the 13 training, the pay, everything has come together for us. 14 MS. CHUNN: I believe Chief Torres wants to -- 15 MR. TORRES: Mr. Chairman, Ms. Chunn, just for 16 purpose of clarification, I know that the group here is 17 a little bit nervous. Deputy Chief Perea mentioned 18 hundreds and hundreds. That's reports, rather 19 than -- I believe the thought was that it was 20 disciplinary cases. 21 We are often a victim of our own success. As 22 I stated earlier, we are very transparent, very 293 1 accountable. And, as the -- with the 10-year history 2 of litigation, we have come to report and report and 3 report, even the smallest shove, inmate of an inmate. 4 So, inmate-on-inmate fights and those type of inmate 5 accidents, anything that occurs in our facility any 6 time, any use of force, any application of mace, 7 anything of that nature requires full reports. 8 So, therefore, there are hundreds of reports 9 that come across the deputy chief's desk, and it's very 10 difficult to remember the details of a case in 11 the -- up to a year ago. 12 I would like to point out for the Panel that 13 the sexual assaults and misconduct for this calendar 14 year, the training has obviously paid off, and 15 the -- we have, as of this date, have one reported in 16 custody. 17 MS. CHUNN: Thank you. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Let me ask you, Ms. Cook and 19 Mr. Perea, about some of the facts in this event number 20 four. 21 Is it typical for a victim to be interviewed 22 about -- and questioned about -- the facts by this many 294 1 people? We had a report to the line officer, it goes 2 to Cpt. Hogan, it then goes to -- and he has Sgt. 3 Guillardo escort the inmate to the infirmary. 4 Evidently, in route, Sgt. Guillardo interviews or 5 interrogates the victim, and he files a report. 6 Then, Doctors SOMEBODY and SOMEBODY evaluate 7 the victim, and they reach the conclusion -- which 8 seems like a criminal investigation conclusion -- that 9 she had lied about the sexual assault, which they pass 10 on to Sgt. Guillardo, who puts it into his report. 11 And then, she is interviewed by the private 12 investigator. And at that point -- perhaps not a great 13 deal of surprise to me -- she is through trying to 14 press this thing, and she says, "Hey, I lied, didn't 15 happen, nothing happened. I'm not a snitch, let's 16 pretend it never happened, I'm going to my lawyer." 17 Now, is that the usual protocol, to have 18 interviews of rape victims, alleged rape victims, 19 occurring in the hallway by a sergeant en route to the 20 infirmary? Is that the standard protocol, or was it in 21 2007? 22 MR. PEREA: No, it's not. I don't know what 295 1 happened in this case. These things are -- should be 2 done in private, and should be done by the folks other 3 than the person who was escorting her -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes -- 5 MR. PEREA: -- you know, down the hall 6 with -- that should not have happened. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. Do you think that the 8 doctors are qualified to determine the credibility of a 9 criminal victim witness? 10 Shouldn't they just be evaluating the medical 11 symptoms, and whether she was violated, whether 12 somebody stuck her finger up her vagina? That's 13 something a doctor can speak to. The credibility, 14 whether she's lying, what qualifications do these two 15 doctors have in that area of criminal psychology? 16 MS. COOK: They don't -- right there, that 17 shouldn't have been done. They should just basically 18 evaluate her, in reference to any medical issue, not 19 about the -- you know, of her saying it's truthful or 20 it's not truthful, you know, and then pass, you know, 21 the information on to us, or if they refer her to SANE, 22 or whatever. 296 1 But that is -- you know, that is -- they 2 shouldn't have, you know, given their opinion in 3 reference to if she's lying or she isn't lying. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: What first responder training 5 did any of your staff, your correctional staff, have as 6 of August of 2007? Or, in this case, as of April of 7 2007? 8 MS. COOK: The only -- the training they had 9 right then is they had report writing. And so 10 normally, with report writing, you know, they are, you 11 know, advised, or they are trained to report, you know, 12 an incident to their supervisor. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Officer Ellis, you were 14 there at the time. What training did you have about if 15 you're the first responder, if you're the person who 16 first gets word that a -- in this case, a female inmate 17 has been sexually assaulted, what was your 18 understanding of what the protocol was? 19 MR. ELLIS: well, Mr. Chairman, that was to 20 report it to my immediate supervisor, and they would 21 pick it up from there and do their investigation. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Were you supposed to do 297 1 anything else, as a correctional officer? 2 MR. ELLIS: Probably keep the inmate with me. 3 That's what -- the most pressing thing we do, is to 4 make sure that he or she is safe and they're around me, 5 so I can keep a visual -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And were you trained to do 7 anything else? 8 MR. ELLIS: At that point in time, I think it 9 was just report, and observe, and make sure they're all 10 right. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And what -- you weren't 12 trained to do anything with respect to the crime scene, 13 securing the crime scene? 14 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, yes. Sorry, yes. 15 Secure the room, secure the area where they explained 16 it might have happened. That training came, I believe, 17 after this point, though. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: After this incident? 19 MR. ELLIS: Right. Well, I wasn't involved in 20 this incident, but -- 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 22 MR. ELLIS: I mean -- 298 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So when did that kind of 2 training start? As president of the union, I would 3 imagine -- and as a sergeant at that point, in the 4 middle of 2007 -- you probably remember when you first 5 started getting first responder training. 6 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, the -- it was during 7 in-service. But to preserve crime scenes or crime 8 scenes investigations, I don't think we have any of 9 that training, still. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 11 MR. ELLIS: But, I mean, we know 12 what -- preserve a crime scene, because we have been 13 explained to by BCSO to do that. The sheriff's 14 department, sorry. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: And there was a witness lying 16 three boats over from the victim. And I'll be darned 17 if I can find any extensive interview of her. 18 Am I wrong? Would you expect, Mr. Perea and 19 Ms. Cook, that part of the protocol for investigating a 20 second-degree felony like criminal sexual penetration 21 would be -- would include a talking to all the 22 witnesses? 299 1 MS. COOK: Yes. 2 MR. PEREA: I agree. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Let's -- can we look at 4 incident number nine, please? 5 This is an incident where -- involving some 6 sexual activity between two inmates, and the sheriff's 7 office said they wouldn't take the report, because the 8 incident happened a week ago. Is that your signature 9 on August 30 of last year, Ms. Cook, on the final 10 action form? 11 MS. COOK: Which -- it's not on here. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Tab nine, the -- 13 (Witness examines the document.) 14 MS. COOK: Yes. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And were you the 16 recipient of the August 29 memo from acting captain, 17 Mary Jackson, about this -- what she describes, "sexual 18 altercation?" 19 MS. COOK: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: That is the next document, 21 yes. 22 And this is a case in which one male inmate 300 1 admits that he had sex with another male inmate, and 2 that the sex was consensual. The other inmate denied 3 anything happened. What -- why was there no further 4 action taken on this case? 5 MS. COOK: We did what we were supposed to, we 6 actually notified BCSO, and that's when they told us 7 that they couldn't do anything, because it happened two 8 weeks prior, I believe, of the incident. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, you know, is it 10 true -- isn't it true that sexual assault victims 11 sometimes don't want to talk about it five minutes 12 after the event? 13 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, it's not unusual 15 for a victim of even a consensual -- if that's 16 possible, in prison -- sexual act to want to come 17 forward with that right away, is that correct? That's 18 not unusual, for there to be some delay in reporting a 19 consensual act? 20 MS. COOK: Yes, yes, yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Or even a -- or especially a 22 non-consensual act. 301 1 Mr. Perea, would you agree with that? 2 MR. PEREA: I agree with you. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, why does it make 4 any difference that the event happened -- I believe it 5 was a week earlier, not two weeks. Why should that 6 make any difference? 7 Yes, I'm looking at the first page of Sgt. 8 Garduno's inter-office correspondence to Cpt. Jackson 9 dated August 14. And the -- Sgt. Garduno's conclusion 10 is, "After questioning inmates, and seen by PSA/PSU 11 staff, their statement was that the sexual activities 12 were consensual, and both inmates were cleared to go 13 back to the units. Medical stated that the inmates 14 would not be taken to the rape crisis, because it had 15 been over a week, and that they stated it was 16 consensual sex." 17 No, I understand that you wouldn't -- why you 18 wouldn't send somebody to -- how -- you know, to a SANE 19 nurse a week after penetration. I understand the 20 evidence would have been lost, possibly, by then. But 21 I don't understand why she, the sergeant, includes as 22 an additional reason why it -- the investigation 302 1 wouldn't go forward because they stated it was 2 consensual sex. Does that make any difference? 3 MS. COOK: No. I mean, as far as what they 4 did, she, you know, did the report, sent it to the 5 captain, you know, and notified BCSO. But they still 6 have to continue with theirs, and then we get 7 the -- you know, get the information back from BCSO, 8 then we put that in with the -- 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, and you see the sergeant 10 did, because the very next sentence, "The sheriff's 11 department called back by land line and stated that 12 there would not be a report, because there wasn't a 13 victim." 14 Now, both inmates wrote a statement. One 15 inmate admitted to having consensual sexual, and the 16 other inmate denied the whole thing. Both inmates were 17 written up and sent to seg as keep-aways. 18 Now why does it -- now I'm not asking you to 19 get into the sheriff's mind, but what is your 20 understanding of whether there is a victim, if there is 21 consensual sex between inmates in a -- in MDC, in a 22 correctional setting? 303 1 MS. COOK: Well, I feel they, you know, still 2 should have took a report, you know. And, I mean -- or 3 that's the law, I mean, but we did our portion in 4 reference to referring it to them, and letting them 5 know. And then they, you know, advised us that, you 6 know, they couldn't do anything. 7 But, you know, I truly believe that they 8 should have at least took down a report in reference to 9 that, and not have called back and -- 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Is it a crime in New Mexico to 11 have consensual sex between inmates in a prison? 12 MS. COOK: In a prison or in a jail? 13 MR. MCFARLAND: All right, in a jail, in any 14 correctional institution. 15 MS. COOK: I see it as being a wrongdoing. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: It's a disciplinary offense? 17 MS. COOK: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Is it a crime? 19 MS. COOK: I believe it's a crime when they 20 take it from another inmate. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 22 MS. COOK: And it's a crime when an officer, 304 1 regardless of if it's consensual or not, that's still a 2 crime. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 4 MS. CHUNN: If you have two conflicting 5 stories from inmates, do you have an affirmative 6 responsibility to do a probing and thorough 7 investigation to determine whether or not there is a 8 greater probability that the sex, in fact, did occur? 9 MS. COOK: Mm-hmm, yes, Ma'am. You still have 10 to go through the -- we don't just take something and, 11 "Oh, well, it didn't really happen." We still have to 12 look into it and do an investigation. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Because isn't it true that a 14 lot of times you're going to -- a victim is going to 15 recant and change her story because she is afraid of 16 being a snitch? She has rethought -- you know, this is 17 now the fourth time she is being interrogated, and she 18 is just wondering if this isn't a lost cause? 19 MS. COOK: Yes, that could happen. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Let's talk about -- why don't 21 we take a break. Five minutes? Great. We will start 22 at a quarter of. 305 1 (A brief recess was taken.) 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Ms. Cook, let's look at 3 number one, an incident on March 14, 2007. 4 MS. COOK: Okay. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And, Mr. Perea, I believe your 6 signature appears -- no, this -- wrong one. 7 Correction, that's -- Ms. Cook, is that your 8 signature on June 20? 9 MS. COOK: Yes. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And this is an incident 11 on March 14. And this is -- in which a victim claimed 12 that a correctional officer sexually assaulted him. 13 Later, evidently, the victim said he lied, and that 14 other inmates had made him accuse the officer, in order 15 to get the officer in trouble with the department. 16 Do you remember reviewing this case, Ms. Cook? 17 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And do you think it was 19 handled correctly? 20 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Wouldn't be the first 22 time that a felon had tried to set up an officer with a 306 1 false accusation, right? 2 MS. COOK: Yes, right. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And is there -- are 4 there disciplinary consequences for victims to make a 5 false statement, false accusation? 6 MS. COOK: We had this form -- I don't know if 7 we still have it -- it's a form that, if an inmate 8 lies, they sign it, and then we can, you know, 9 prosecute from there. But I don't recall if we even 10 had that form. We had got that form from the state 11 prisons, in reference to if an inmate is not truthful. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Look at event number 13 two. I believe you signed off on no further action on 14 June 8, 2007? 15 MS. COOK: Number two? 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Number two. 17 MS. COOK: Oh, yes. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: And this case involved a 19 lieutenant receiving a phone call from the victim's 20 brother, claiming that the victim had been sexually 21 assaulted by officers in the facility, is that correct? 22 MS. COOK: Yes. 307 1 MR. MCFARLAND: And then later, the victim, 2 alleged victim, changed his story, said he hadn't been 3 assaulted, but he had received threats from the 4 officers. And so the incident report indicates no 5 further action necessary, is that correct? 6 MS. COOK: Yes. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. We already talked about 8 three and four. Let's talk about event five. 9 (Pause.) 10 MR. MCFARLAND: This is another alleged 11 staff-on-inmate matter in the infirmary unit. Find it? 12 MS. COOK: Yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And this event was 14 actually substantiated, was it not? 15 MS. COOK: Yes, yes. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Was a final action 17 sheet ever filled out? What was the ultimate 18 disposition of this matter? 19 (Witness examines the document.) 20 MS. COOK: It was -- 21 MR. MCFARLAND: While you're looking -- 22 MS. COOK: Yes. 308 1 MR. MCFARLAND: -- Mr. Perea, were you 2 involved in this case? A case of a number of female 3 inmates stating that a certified nurse practitioner was 4 inappropriately touching each of them during exams. 5 MR. PEREA: Sir, I would have been involved in 6 regards to receiving the report from the external 7 investigators. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, do you remember this? 9 This is a -- do you remember this event? 10 MR. PEREA: Actually -- yes, I do. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, Mr. Perea, this is an 12 event of -- involving multiple events of a staff member 13 inappropriately assaulting multiple, you know, several, 14 inmates on a number of occasions. And the individual 15 was banned from the premises, wasn't he? 16 MS. COOK: Yes. 17 MR. PEREA: He was banned from the premises 18 when we discovered the incident, even during the 19 pendency of the investigation. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 21 MR. PEREA: Yes. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: And does this happen all the 309 1 time? 2 (No response.) 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Do allegations that are 4 substantiated like this happen regularly at MDC? 5 MS. COOK: No, they don't. 6 MR. PEREA: Usually, when we find out, if 7 there is a, if you will, a preponderance of evidence 8 that something actually happened, the chief is very 9 good to immediately place someone under administrative 10 leave so that they are not on site while we investigate 11 the case, while we also send it over to the sheriff's 12 department. Those are just standard protocols that we 13 take immediately. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, my question was does 15 this happen all the time, Mr. Perea? 16 MR. PEREA: Incidents of this nature with the 17 medical folks? 18 MR. MCFARLAND: With any of your staff. 19 MR. PEREA: No, it doesn't happen all the -- 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Well then, I'm just kind 21 of -- to be honest, I'm flabbergasted that it's really 22 a challenge for you to remember this event. Multiple 310 1 sexual assaults on multiple inmates, substantiated. 2 The man is banned from the premises, and it takes you a 3 while to see if you can remember that happening. 4 And I'm just wondering, is it because, like 5 everything else, referred out to this external private 6 eye, or is this just such a common occasion that you 7 just can't remember which multiple rape this was? 8 MR. PEREA: No, it's just that I like to look 9 at the cases before I answer. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 11 MR. PEREA: I just like to go over it. Like I 12 said, I didn't get this list and go through it in 13 reference -- in preparation of what you were going to 14 ask, Sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: I see. Look at number seven, 16 please. We already looked at six. 17 And, by the way, I noted on six -- that was 18 the first one we talked about, involving the gay man, 19 the gay inmate, who was assaulted by the three inmates, 20 allegedly so, and let into his -- who were let into his 21 cell by the two officers, allegedly. And then it was 22 closed after it was deemed to be consensual. 311 1 I noted that the -- so we're talking about six 2 for just a second again, this was an F-4, that the 3 victim is 140 pounds, 5 foot 11. One of the three gang 4 rapists was 6' 2", 220, so he had about 3 inches and 80 5 pounds difference. 6 Is that consistent with your experience, that 7 frequently there is a significant difference in the 8 stature and the build between the predator and the 9 victim, Ms. Cook? 10 MS. COOK: Not really. I mean, it's 11 just -- unfortunately, it was in this case. But 12 normally, the ones that have that happen, it's not like 13 that. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Let's look at the next 15 one, then, number six. 16 MS. COOK: We're on six. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Or number seven? Seven. 18 Where is that? What happened to seven? You have seven 19 there? 20 MS. COOK: Yes, yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Seven? Well, in this case 22 we've got a 5-foot, 6-inch, 155-pound male who alleges 312 1 he was sexually assaulted by a 6-foot, 220-pound male 2 in seg one, cell number 16. Do you recall this case? 3 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: There is no final action or 5 disposition sheet. What was done in this case? 6 MS. COOK: Well, there was no policy 7 violations in this case. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: There were, or were not? 9 MS. COOK: There was not. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And was this -- what 11 did BCSO do with this? 12 MS. COOK: They investigated it. We referred 13 it over to BCSO. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: This wasn't referred to RCI? 15 MR. PEREA: No. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. How did you decide 17 which ones would go to RCI, and which ones would just 18 stay with BCSO? 19 MR. PEREA: Usually cases of this nature work 20 at the chief's discretion, through our policy. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So Chief Torres makes 22 the decision whether to farm it out or not? 313 1 MR. PEREA: Yes. We make recommendations to 2 him, or Deputy Chief Cook makes recommendations to him, 3 and he determines whether it's a case that should go 4 out to -- 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, Ms. Cook, why didn't 6 you -- or, Mr. Perea, please chime in -- why didn't 7 you, either of you, recommend to Chief Torres that this 8 be sent to the usual RCI investigator? 9 Did you think it just didn't look like it had 10 enough merit to pay the cost of this outside 11 investigator, or -- 12 MS. COOK: Well, we sent it over to -- you 13 know, referred it to BCSO. And, normally, when -- they 14 will let us know if it's -- if there is -- you know, if 15 they need to pursue further, or -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 17 MS. COOK: But the information that we got 18 back from them, there wasn't nothing that -- to 19 substantiate -- 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, I'm trying to figure out 21 not what BCSO did or didn't do and why, because you 22 always -- they are always making their own independent 314 1 decision on charging, right? 2 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And in each one of 4 these cases, we have seen that BCSO, when they deny 5 charges, that closes the case so far, isn't that 6 correct? 7 I mean, in no case have you -- has there been 8 a case -- well, I take that back. There have been 9 several where there was -- where you disciplined the 10 officer, or the contract worker, and then closed the 11 case. All right. 12 Well, I'm trying to figure out when you farm 13 out the investigation, or recommend to Chief Torres 14 that you use LCI -- 15 MR. PEREA: RCI. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: RCI, or whether you keep it 17 in-house. And I -- Ms. Cook, what's your criteria, how 18 do you decide? 19 MS. COOK: Well, when we referred it over to 20 the -- you know, we advise the chief what's -- you 21 know, what's going on, and we brief him and tell that 22 BCSO has been notified, and then we determine from 315 1 there if we're going to get RCI involved, if it's -- 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And how do you determine that? 3 MS. COOK: If it's serious in nature. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, is an allegation that 5 somebody was raped by a cellmate serious enough 6 to -- in nature? 7 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: So why didn't this go to RCI? 9 MS. COOK: I don't recall why this one didn't 10 go to RCI. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, let me ask -- give a 12 suspicion here. On the correspondence from Sgt. Baca 13 to Cpt. Hogan, the summary in this little-over-two-page 14 recommendation, the second paragraph says, "After 15 interview with the officer" -- no, no, after interview 16 with the victim; they both have similar names -- it's 17 disclosed that the victim has had psychiatric problems 18 in the past, and he has not taken his meds in a few 19 months. 20 And then, the alleged perpetrator is 21 interviewed, and it is also discovered that the alleged 22 perpetrator has had sexual assault charges in the past. 316 1 The victim will be sent to SANE, both inmates 2 remain in seg one on keep-away status. So nobody gets 3 sent out of seg, nobody gets -- I mean, they have a 4 keep-away, but there is no move, and there is no RCI 5 investigation, and it -- I'm just wondering if that's 6 because you figured, "Hold it. This guy has 7 psychiatric problems, he's not been on his meds, so why 8 believe him." Is that what happened? Is that why? 9 MS. COOK: No. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, it's an alleged rape. 11 So why would you not use the service that you have used 12 on all these other cases to investigate this alleged 13 rape? 14 MR. PEREA: Mr. Chair, I am not going to sit 15 here and say we are certainly perfect, but our protocol 16 is when we have incidents such as this one, that is an 17 alleged rape, there is possible criminal activity, we 18 immediately send those cases to the Bernalillo County 19 sheriff's department. 20 We await word from them, for the most part, 21 before we even start an investigation, because starting 22 an investigation, they tell us, can jeopardize their 317 1 criminal investigation. So we kind of put ours, you 2 know, pending until they get back to us. 3 There are times that we have started our 4 investigation, and kind of side by side with them, but 5 with their permission, so that we don't kind of step on 6 their toes. We have done that in the past. 7 I am just thinking that may be a possibility, 8 that we sent this to the sheriff's department, awaiting 9 for them to get back to us, and -- 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, look -- 11 MR. PEREA: -- make determinations -- 12 MR. MCFARLAND: The next sentence it says what 13 the sheriff's department did. This report from your 14 captain is after the sheriff's department has advised 15 that the perp will not be charged. 16 And that seems to be -- that's the end of the 17 road. If BCSO says, "We're not going to charge," for 18 whatever reason, even though this perpetrator has had 19 sexual assault charges in his past -- 20 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: -- they say, "No charge," end 22 of story for MDC. Is that the way it worked, at least 318 1 in 2007? 2 MR. PEREA: We do account a lot for the 3 sheriff's department -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. 5 MR. PEREA: -- to give us the guidance on 6 whether someone is -- after they either interrogate him 7 or speak to them, to give us that guidance, whether 8 someone may or may not be telling the truth, or denies 9 the allegations that they may have made. That's 10 happened a lot. 11 We have a lot of inmates who do come forth and 12 I don't want to say all inmates are not telling the 13 truth, but we have many who do -- may come forward and 14 file frivolous actions for the purposes of lawsuits. 15 That could happen, as well, so -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Nobody -- did this -- 17 MR. PEREA: This -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: This perp didn't -- this 19 victim wasn't alleging lawsuits. 20 MR. PEREA: I understand. But what -- all I 21 am trying to say, Mr. Chairman, is that this is the 22 reason that we do get the sheriff's department 319 1 involved, we do have medical folks involved, we do have 2 our own internal folks involved, who basically conduct 3 these, whether they're preliminary investigations or 4 criminal investigations, to try to determine the 5 validity of these cases. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Let's look at number eight. 7 Now, this wasn't an alleged rape, this is just an 8 inappropriate touching -- not "just" -- of a -- but 9 compared to some of these others -- of an inmate by a 10 canteen worker, another contractor. And this was in 11 the food service unit, and it occurred on June 25, 12 2007. 13 You had lots of witnesses in this case. Some 14 said, oh, they thought it was a joke. Others didn't. 15 The canteen worker was allowed to quit, isn't that 16 true? 17 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Now, does that end an 19 investigation at MDC in 2007? If a sexual -- if a 20 staff-on-inmate event occurs, the person chooses to 21 resign, end of investigation, the case closed? 22 MS. COOK: No. 320 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What happened here? 2 MS. COOK: Let's see. Because the canteen 3 service, they have -- in reference to how we have a 4 different process, they can just get rid of their 5 people, just like that, because they don't follow under 6 our -- you know, under our disciplinary process. 7 And -- 8 MR. MCFARLAND: They don't? 9 MS. COOK: They don't -- 10 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Are they subject 11 to the same rules, your contractors, or do they have a 12 different set of rules? 13 MS. COOK: The way that they deal with their, 14 like, canteen workers or anything, it's a little bit 15 different from ours. I mean, they actually can just 16 get rid of them, if they -- you know, their process is 17 a little bit different from us. We have steps that we 18 go through, and -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, if one of your 20 contractors -- we already talked about a contractor in 21 the infirmary -- 22 MS. COOK: Yes. 321 1 MR. MCFARLAND: -- who was shown the door -- 2 MS. COOK: Right. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: -- for inappropriate touching 4 of several female inmates. Now you have a canteen 5 worker who is inappropriately touching a male inmate. 6 And one of your reports indicates that the alleged perp 7 had previously made sexual comments to the same inmate. 8 So, there was some corroborating evidence, and 9 you had a bunch of witnesses standing right next to 10 him, saw this guy lay his hands on this guy's butt, as 11 it's -- as they put it, and there is no question that 12 that happened. 13 Are you saying that because this person is a 14 canteen worker, there is little you can do? Or you 15 have different rules applying, or what? 16 MS. COOK: No. We still do our investigation. 17 It's just that with them, in reference to -- you know, 18 we might put in our report, you know, we don't want 19 this person here. But they deal with them, you know, 20 elsewhere. Because we can have them not come back to 21 our facility. 22 But as far as canteen, either they will have 322 1 them not work there in the kitchen any more, and have 2 them work elsewhere off -- you know, out at MDC, or 3 just get rid of them. 4 So they -- you know, they deal with 5 them -- you know, things that we think that we should 6 just get rid of our -- if one of our officers did 7 something, we would just -- you know, we have our 8 process, and we will get rid of them. They tend to do 9 a little bit different from -- 10 MS. CHUNN: Are you saying that this person 11 was not your employee? 12 MS. COOK: No, they were a canteen. They were 13 contract -- 14 MS. CHUNN: They were contract. 15 MS. COOK: So -- mm-hmm. 16 MS. CHUNN: Okay. 17 MS. COOK: Yes. 18 MR. PEREA: If I may, Mr. Chair, they fall 19 under our rules, and that's part of the contract, is 20 that they must follow the Metropolitan Detention rules. 21 However, because they are contract employees, they fall 22 under their corporate -- whatever disciplinary process 323 1 they give. 2 What does MDC do if we find, through an 3 investigation, that there was wrongdoing and we don't 4 want that person there, we always have the ultimate 5 authority, if you will, to ban him from the facility 6 and not allow him to enter back into the facility. 7 MS. COOK: Yes. 8 MR. PEREA: This is the process that we take. 9 And usually the contractors are in line with us, that 10 if someone shouldn't be there, they dismiss them. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: If I'm not mistaken, an 12 earlier panel, Ms. Valerio, indicated that the nurse 13 practitioner, or the medical professional who was 14 banned from MDC for the inappropriate touching is still 15 employed by, I assume, by that firm. I don't know if 16 that's the case. 17 But if I am mistaken -- I am wondering if you 18 don't have some concern that, because you have a zero 19 tolerance policy, and because the word -- probably the 20 inmates are not going to distinguish, "Oh, well, that 21 person was a contractor, not an employee, and so I 22 understand why they weren't prosecuted, or it didn't go 324 1 any farther. I don't see them around any more." 2 But no. I mean, I would think that you would 3 want to send a message that it doesn't matter who is 4 paying their paycheck. If they are on your premises, 5 and they fondle females -- a female comes in with a 6 headache and gets a pelvic exam, and this person is 7 shown the door, but hey, if -- unless the sheriff's 8 office wants to do something about it, we 9 don't -- that's the end of the -- they just -- they 10 don't come here, and we don't worry about any kind of 11 criminal enforcement. 12 I would think that -- correct me if I'm 13 wrong -- as acting -- or rather as deputy chief for 14 security, I would think that you would want the message 15 to get out, "You mess with any inmate or any staff 16 member, I don't care who you are, you're going to do 17 time if -- we're going to urge prosecution, we're going 18 to care about what BCSO does. We are going to refer 19 everything to our RCI private eye, investigator, not 20 just those that don't involve psychiatric inmates." 21 And that's a real effective way, regardless of 22 the policies -- 325 1 MS. COOK: Right. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: -- and all the paper, to send 3 a message. 4 MS. COOK: Right. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: "Don't even think about 6 sending somebody here who is going to mess" -- 7 MS. COOK: Right. And -- 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Does that make sense? 9 MS. COOK: Yes, it does. And now that we have 10 got our internal affairs unit, you know, things have 11 improved a whole lot. So, even if they're doing an 12 investigation, like the supervisors, you know, IA gets 13 involved and they do an investigation. 14 So, it has improved, you know, and it's for 15 the better. So it's -- 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, that's good to hear. 17 But Mr. Perea was internal affairs, wasn't he, at the 18 time? 19 MS. COOK: He was in charge of internal 20 affairs at the time. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Let's look at number nine. Or 22 did we finish eight? Did we do eight? Yes, we did 326 1 eight. 2 No further action. Approved by Ms. Cook on 3 August 30, 2007. 4 MS. COOK: What's the name that you have on 5 there? What number? 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Number nine. 7 MS. COOK: Okay. 8 (Witness examines the document.) 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And this is a case in August, 10 in F-8, where some inmates advised an officer that 11 several inmates were having consensual sex. And what 12 happened in this case? 13 MS. COOK: Do -- we have August 14th. Is that 14 the same -- 15 MR. MCFARLAND: This is August 14th, yes. 16 MS. COOK: Okay. Well, in this case, it was 17 referred to -- it happened a week ago, over a week ago. 18 But it wasn't that we didn't do the report a week ago. 19 We actually jumped on it right when it was told to us. 20 So, it was told -- you know, the inmate had 21 reported that. But from there on, then we, you know, 22 reported it to BCSO. So we did not jump on it a week 327 1 later. So he just reported it to us it happened a week 2 later. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: So that's why it wasn't sent 4 to SANE, is that correct? 5 MS. COOK: Yes. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Because it happened over a 7 week ago? 8 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: And one of the inmates was 10 evaluated by PSU? 11 MS. COOK: Yes. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: So -- 13 MS. COOK: Both inmates were. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And then they were 15 moved to seg housing, is that right? 16 MS. COOK: Yes. They were disciplinary. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. So this wasn't a matter 18 that was referred to BCSO, is that right? 19 MS. COOK: We actually sent it, but they 20 advised us that, since it happened a week ago -- but we 21 do -- but that's our protocol. If something happens, 22 you do report that to them. 328 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 2 MS. COOK: Regardless if it happened a week 3 ago or two weeks ago. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Item 10 is a case of a 5 couple of inmates that allegedly were boyfriend and 6 girlfriend, got some time alone in the arraignment 7 room. 8 Is that your respective signatures on December 9 6th and December 7, 2007, Ms. Cook and Mr. Perea? 10 MS. COOK: Yes. Yes, Sir. 11 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And one of the -- the 13 officer was disciplined for -- reprimanded for not 14 keeping an eye on them. Is that basically what 15 happened? 16 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: No charges, no keep separates 18 or anything? 19 MS. COOK: No, Sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Being of opposite sex, I think 21 they're already keep separates, right? 22 MS. COOK: Yes. 329 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And number 11 -- 2 MR. AUH: Mr. Chairman, I need to advise my 3 panel of witnesses that the binder of documents do not 4 contain 11. So they're going to look at it on -- 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Oh, all right. 6 (Witnesses examine the document.) 7 MR. MCFARLAND: This is an alleged event on 8 October 15, reported to one of your religious 9 volunteers, or chaplains. And this involves 10 inmate-on-inmate, an inmate putting his hands down the 11 other inmate's pants. The victim waited two weeks to 12 report. 13 One -- the victim was 150 pounds, medium 14 build, 21 years of age. The perpetrator was a 15 40-year-old, large build, 200 pounds. What happened in 16 this case? 17 (No response.) 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Do you remember this incident? 19 MS. COOK: Yes. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So what happened? 21 MS. COOK: Actually, it was inconclusive, the 22 investigation. Inconclusive, the investigation was. 330 1 MR. MCFARLAND: Was this referred to LCI -- or 2 RCI? 3 MS. COOK: No, Sir. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. It didn't seem to be 5 that serious? 6 MS. COOK: Not like the other ones, no. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: No? Okay. Does the -- does 8 RCI charge the county every time it does an 9 investigation? 10 MR. PEREA: Yes. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: And so they're not under 12 retainer. You get charged per investigation, is that 13 right? 14 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. On number 12, Sgt. 16 Ellis has a memorandum to Deputy Chief Perea. This 17 involves another -- in this case, an employee, a 18 maintenance man, as it says in the memo. 19 Sgt. Ellis, do you recall reporting on this 20 event? 21 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, yes I do, Sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And this involves about 331 1 23 phone calls made between this maintenance man and a 2 female inmate, is that correct? 3 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, yes it is. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: So, what was the problem here? 5 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I came across 6 information from the inmate, one inmate, that another 7 inmate was involved with, like you said, the 8 maintenance man. And I did the report, got phone 9 records to confirm that he was talking to the inmate on 10 the phone, and he was, I believe, pulled in the office? 11 MR. PEREA: Yes. 12 MR. ELLIS: And we talked to him. He admitted 13 to doing what he did, and then he was no longer with 14 MDC after that. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Were any -- there 16 wasn't any evidence of actual sexual contact, or was 17 there? 18 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, no. No sexual 19 contact, just -- 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 21 MR. ELLIS: Sexual behavior -- 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Inappropriate relationship? 332 1 MR. ELLIS: Yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Looking at item 13, 3 inmate-on-inmate event on October 31. Is that your 4 signature, Ms. Cook, on -- 5 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, November 5, 2007. And 7 you -- in addition to checking "no further action 8 required," you -- I assume it's you who wrote the 9 comment, "Staff did not violate any policy," is that 10 right? 11 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: So, this involved an inmate 13 complaining that an inmate was -- another inmate was 14 making unwanted sexual advances to that female victim, 15 is that correct? 16 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Actually, it was a male who 18 was making the sexual comments to the female victim. 19 Is that right? 20 MS. COOK: Yes. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Is that a -- what's the 22 problem with that? I imagine that happens all the 333 1 time. What is -- 2 MS. COOK: The inmates -- it's a male inmate, 3 and just was not -- was being disrespectful when they 4 see a female. Because they were either coming from 5 court, you know -- 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay, this was during a 7 transport? 8 MS. COOK: Yes. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. And they're 10 passing in the hallways, is that right? 11 MS. COOK: Mm-hmm. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 13 MS. COOK: And the inmates are not supposed to 14 speak in the hallways. And if we do hear them, we tell 15 them, you know, to be quiet. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, didn't -- wasn't there a 17 little bit more than that to it, though? It wasn't 18 just a passing comment. 19 Didn't this male inmate scare the daylights 20 out of the female inmate, started, you know, telling 21 her that he was going to join her in -- tried to 22 attempt -- attempted to enter Delta unit, following the 334 1 female, and if he had not been reminded where he 2 belonged, he might have accosted her. 3 There was a bit more than just a passing 4 comment, right? 5 MS. COOK: Yes. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And this woman was -- this 7 inmate was pregnant, and was very offended and fearful 8 of her -- from this sexual harassment. Is that what 9 happened? 10 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. But was anybody 12 disciplined? 13 MS. COOK: As far as -- the officers did not 14 do -- 15 MR. MCFARLAND: No. 16 MS. COOK: They didn't do any -- they didn't 17 have any wrongdoing in this situation. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm talking about the inmates. 19 Anybody -- any repercussions for the aggressive male 20 inmate? 21 MS. COOK: I am not aware -- I don't know if 22 they put him in lock-down, or anything like that, so I 335 1 don't -- 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. There are three others, 3 but I don't think -- one occurred outside of the 4 premises, and a little unusual. 5 Let's look at number 14. Did we already look 6 at this? We don't want to look at the outside -- 7 MS. CHUNN: We don't? 8 MR. MCFARLAND: No, so I think 14. But have 9 we already looked at 14? No. Yes, number 14. There 10 isn't a final action sheet there. What was the 11 disposition here? 12 MS. COOK: I know the individual was taken to 13 SANE. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Is this a case where the 15 inmate, a male inmate, claimed he had been sexually 16 assaulted by three inmates while in the restroom area 17 of PAC 3? 18 MS. COOK: Yes. PAC 2, PAC 2. PAC 3, I'm 19 sorry, yes. It's actually PAC 2, not PAC 3. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. The memo is -- the 21 November 28 memo from Cpt. Trujillo is a little 22 confusing. 336 1 MS. COOK: Yes. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: Date, time, and location of 3 the incident is PAC 1. First sentence says it occurred 4 in the restroom area of PAC 3, and then we're back to 5 PAC 1 a couple of sentences later. But, anyway -- 6 MS. COOK: Look at the conclusion in the back. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: I'm sorry? 8 MS. COOK: The conclusion in the back, when it 9 said it -- 10 MR. MCFARLAND: Where is the conclusion? All 11 right. 12 MS. COOK: -- took place in PAC 2. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: Now, the -- Cpt. Trujillo, in 14 his conclusion, mentions Sgt. Ellis. 15 Sgt. Ellis, do you remember this case? It 16 says that you and Sgt. Candelaria reviewed the video 17 tape two hours prior to the time of the alleged 18 assault, and found no evidence of an assault. Do you 19 recall doing that? 20 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, I mean, if it says 21 it in here that I did it, I did it. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, it's -- 337 1 MR. ELLIS: I mean, I just don't recall it at 2 this time. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 4 MR. ELLIS: No, Sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Have you had 6 occasion, Sergeant, to review video tapes on many 7 occasions? 8 MR. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, yes, I have. Since 9 I have become a sergeant, I have also become the 10 sergeant of the internal affairs unit, so -- 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 12 MR. ELLIS: -- I do watch videos, and -- 13 MR. MCFARLAND: So it's hard to remember the 14 particular -- this wasn't an unusual incident for you 15 to review, a couple hours of video, is that right? 16 MR. ELLIS: No, Sir. No, Mr. Chairman. 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, Ms. Cook -- or, by 18 the way, Mr. Perea, did you have any involvement in 19 this case? 20 MR. PEREA: I don't believe so, Sir. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: But I think you testified 22 earlier that you almost always had joint 338 1 recommendations going from Ms. Cook and yourself to the 2 chief, is that right? 3 MR. PEREA: If you see any cases that have 4 gone in front of you today, Sir, that only have Deputy 5 Chief Cook's signature, and say, "No further action," 6 those are ones that do not cross my desk. Therefore, I 7 have no involvement in them. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: And this one didn't have one 9 of those sheets, so that's why I don't know. 10 MR. PEREA: Yes. No, I didn't have an 11 involvement in this one. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. So, Ms. Cook, you're 13 the only one who remembers anything about this. What 14 happened? 15 You have an alleged gang rape in a bathroom. 16 What did BCSO do, or did they ever hear about this? 17 MS. COOK: I think -- I don't know if we did 18 this, because we looked at the video, and didn't even 19 show -- from the time that the inmate said that these 20 other inmates had allegedly assaulted him, or sexually 21 assaulted him, it didn't show that -- there was none of 22 those inmates around him, in reference to that. 339 1 MR. MCFARLAND: So does the video -- that was 2 dispositive of the case? 3 MS. COOK: Yes. 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Did it play any part in 5 your recommendation, or your disposition that the 6 inmate claimed he hears voices and sees shadows, along 7 with the medication he was on? 8 MS. COOK: Basically, the video -- basically, 9 that was the main decision there. You know, regardless 10 if they're hearing or seeing, it's still -- you know, 11 something can happen, I don't want to take that and 12 make that be my main decision of, well, you know, 13 either it happened or it didn't happen. But looking at 14 the video, it didn't even show that these inmates were 15 even around this individual. 16 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. The last case. I 17 beg your indulgence, there is -- we won't do 15, 18 because it occurred outside somebody on community 19 corrections. 20 Sixteen, this is an alleged incident on July 21 15 in seg seven. In this case, the complainant told an 22 officer that his wife, who was also an inmate, had been 340 1 raped. I believe both of you signed off on the final 2 action form. Is that right? 3 MS. COOK: Yes. 4 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. I think your comments 6 -- Ms. Cook, this got referred to RCI, did it not? 7 MS. COOK: Yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And so -- 9 MS. COOK: And BCSO. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And BCSO. So this one seemed 11 to be serious enough to warrant the expense of RCI, is 12 that right? 13 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And what happened? 15 MS. COOK: Well, inmate [REDACTED] had, you 16 know, alleged that she was sexually assaulted. And 17 then inmate [REDACTED] denied that she was assaulted, but 18 had no visible injuries in this case. So, they 19 escorted [REDACTED] to medical, and then transported to 20 SANE. 21 BCSO was notified, and did the report, and so 22 we're still pending. But we also sent this out to RCI 341 1 for the investigation. 2 MR. MCFARLAND: And when RCI came back, what 3 was their conclusion? I don't see anything. 4 (Witness examines the document.) 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Page seven of their 6 investigative findings, they conclude that the -- 7 MS. COOK: Yes. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: -- inmate was making a false 9 accusation, the female inmate. Is that right? 10 MS. COOK: Yes. Let's see. Yes. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Did -- were -- did you notice 12 that there was an allegation that the victim was jumped 13 and raped because of a case that she or her husband 14 inmate had against a former correctional officer? Did 15 you notice that? 16 MR. PEREA: Yes. 17 MS. COOK: Yes, [REDACTED]. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Did that spark any additional 19 inquiry? I mean, you know, you now have a motive that 20 could involve staff being an accessory to a rape. 21 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 22 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And why did you -- what 342 1 further investigation, if any, was done? Anybody talk 2 to that former correctional officer? 3 MS. COOK: Yes, the correctional officer was 4 still working there. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: So, the one on page seven that 6 is identified in the third paragraph as a former CO -- 7 MS. COOK: Oh, no. I'm looking at the wrong 8 one. I'm sorry. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 10 MS. COOK: Wrong one. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: No longer there? 12 MS. COOK: Yes. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: All right. Anybody talk to 14 him? 15 MS. COOK: I do not know. Did you talk to 16 him? 17 MR. PEREA: As far as I know, nobody talked to 18 the former corrections officer. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: And so nothing was done about 20 that possible motive for -- in that case, is that 21 right? Just -- it was noted, and -- are you 22 remembering something about it, Mr. Ellis? 343 1 MR. ELLIS: Yes, Sir, Mr. Chairman. I believe 2 when BCSO tried to do their interview with the inmate, 3 she was out of custody, and she did not comply with the 4 request for interview. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. And my question was if 6 you had a problem, as this woman did, with a former 7 correctional officer who is now on the street and 8 you're out on the street, it's probably not too 9 surprising that you might want to think twice about 10 pressing charges. Is that -- 11 MS. COOK: Okay, can you say that again? 12 MR. MCFARLAND: No, it is just supposition, 13 but -- 14 MS. COOK: Okay. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: What have we forgotten? 16 MS. CHUNN: I don't think anything. As a 17 result of this testimony here today by the three of 18 you, in the roles that you play, do you believe that 19 perhaps you may want to reconsider how you're doing 20 business? 21 MS. COOK: And we have. We have changed from 22 how it was back in 2007. And with our internal affairs 344 1 unit, it has changed a whole lot, and it has improved. 2 And then we -- you know, and it's going to 3 improve even more, so -- 4 MS. CHUNN: I think it's awfully important to 5 continue to get people to register any behavior that is 6 PREA-related. Well, any inappropriate and illegal 7 behavior in a secure facility only creates problems. 8 So, while you have a number of cases here, and 9 a number of challenges -- 10 MS. COOK: Yes. 11 MS. CHUNN: -- I am wondering what plans you 12 have to make sure that people continue to voice those 13 concerns, beyond what you are doing with internal 14 affairs. 15 MS. COOK: More training, you know, to make 16 sure the officers are aware, and what -- you know, and 17 who to report it to, and also for the supervisors, 18 also, you know, to take a more active role. 19 And with, you know, our supervisors actually 20 being in the pods, and you know, walking around and, 21 you know, seeing what's going on, and then with the 22 officer -- making sure the officers are, you know, 345 1 walking around also, you know, and not just sitting at 2 their desk and trying to supervise from that desk. 3 So, if the officers are more, you know, 4 involved, as far -- and the supervisor, also, going 5 into the units and interacting with these inmates and 6 the officers, to see what they're doing, it will make 7 the officer feel like they have that support there. 8 And then, with the direct supervision, where 9 you know, we are going to eventually give, you know, 10 the ownership to the officer, as far as they will be 11 totally responsible, and the supervisor will support 12 them in reference to that. 13 So, and that will be something that we have to 14 work on, because the supervisors, you know, they 15 don't -- you know, they have to get used to giving that 16 additional responsibility to the officers, in reference 17 to direct supervision, because we are a direct 18 supervision facility. And so the officer is going to 19 be the ownership of operations, and they have to take 20 charge and responsibility for their unit. 21 MS. CHUNN: Do you have plans to be a little 22 bit more intensive with working with inmates about 346 1 their rights and responsibilities? 2 MS. COOK: Yes, Ma'am. And also in the pods, 3 on the bulletin boards, they have the information from 4 the inmate handbook. Even though we're waiting for the 5 inmate handbooks to come in, we have it on the bulletin 6 boards in the units, of the same stuff they have 7 on -- in the inmate handbook. So it's right there, you 8 know, so they can just go look at the bulletin board 9 and get the information. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: You're familiar with policy 11 335 on sexual misconduct? 12 MS. COOK: Yes, Sir. 13 MR. MCFARLAND: And section E states and has 14 training requirements for employees, volunteers, and 15 contractors. Do they all receive the same training, 16 the same content, amount of time, et cetera? 17 MS. COOK: Yes. But Erin Worsham can speak on 18 that. 19 MR. MCFARLAND: Ms. Worsham, do the 20 contractors and volunteers get the same amount and 21 content of training on sexual assault, and especially 22 staff sexual misconduct, as the employees do? 347 1 MS. WORSHAM: The contractors definitely do. 2 The volunteers are an area that we are currently 3 working on, to bring additional training to the 4 volunteers. And that is something that I have been 5 championing with the volunteer coordinator. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: And while you're up, let me 7 ask. The sexual assault awareness posters don't have 8 any mention of criminal statutes involving either staff 9 sexual misconduct or inmate-on-inmate sexual 10 contact -- assault. And there is no discussion that 11 inmates cannot consent to sexual contact with staff. 12 Would that be something that you might want to 13 clarify in future posters? 14 MS. WORSHAM: Absolutely. Point well taken. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. In the inmate handbook, 16 there is some confusing language. It states that all 17 reported acts of sexual abuse, sexual misconduct, or 18 sexual threats will be thoroughly investigated. And 19 any person guilty of this behavior will be disciplined 20 and/or referred for criminal prosecution. 21 Do you think that that might be misinterpreted 22 by an inmate to think that if they're involved in 348 1 sexual relations with a staff member they could be 2 criminally prosecuted, and therefore they probably 3 aren't going to want to come forward with that 4 information? 5 MS. WORSHAM: That's something that we can 6 definitely clarify. The point that we were trying to 7 make is that, should they engage in that behavior, they 8 could be subject to discipline, because it's just as 9 much a message to the potential predator as it is to 10 the potential victim. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. So there you were trying 12 to make that point to the staff predator, whereas -- 13 MS. WORSHAM: Absolutely. But we can clarify 14 that. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: You might clarify, the inmate, 16 "victim," even though the "victim" could be enticing a 17 female correctional officer or a male correctional 18 officer to compromise him or her, still, the criminal 19 penalty is geared towards the staff member. Is that 20 correct? 21 MS. WORSHAM: Absolutely. And/or it could be 22 targeted towards the perpetrator. So I will definitely 349 1 work on clarifying that so that it doesn't send the 2 message to the victim that they would have any 3 potential -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. 5 MS. WORSHAM: -- for being disciplined for 6 reporting something -- that they have been victimized. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: And, Ms. Cook, are you 8 familiar with policy 303, which is, I think, about 9 internal affairs and civil litigation unit? 10 MS. COOK: Yes. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. And, Mr. Perea, I take 12 it you are familiar with that policy. 13 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 14 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. It says there that the 15 determination -- I'm reading from section B4G -- that 16 the determination is made by Mr. Torres, as to whether 17 a sexual misconduct case will be referred. Is that 18 correct? Is that your understanding of the policy? 19 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 20 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. What happens if a staff 21 member resigns in lieu of termination? 22 MR. PEREA: If a staff member resigns in lieu 350 1 of termination, certainly we can't control the staff 2 member from resigning. They can come in and turn in 3 their resignation. We make it known for the record on 4 their paperwork that it was in lieu of this person 5 being in the process of being terminated. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Does that end the 7 investigation, however? 8 MR. PEREA: In most circumstances, that ends 9 the investigation, right there. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And that also ends any 11 possibility of referral for prosecution, then, I take 12 it? 13 MR. PEREA: In this case -- in these cases, we 14 usually send them out to the Bernalillo County 15 sheriff's department in advance of this whole -- before 16 we tell a person they're going to be terminated -- 17 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, sure, yes. 18 MR. PEREA: -- case has already -- 19 MR. MCFARLAND: But once you have fingered an 20 individual, I mean, once the staff members knows -- the 21 canteen worker, the nurse practitioner, the officer who 22 lets somebody in to the janitor closet -- once they 351 1 know they are under investigation, they get one of 2 these forms that says, "You're under investigation," 3 right? 4 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Next day they call in and say, 6 "I'm not coming to work, I resign." 7 MR. PEREA: Yes, Sir. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: BCSO hasn't got anything. 9 That's the end of the investigation. That's your shop. 10 And BCSO is -- I take it -- is not going to be doing an 11 investigation at that point, are they? Or are they? 12 MR. PEREA: We have sent cases, irregardless 13 of a person coming in and doing that. But, for the 14 most part, that doesn't happen. Usually the employee 15 kind of goes with the flow of things, to try to 16 determine whether -- you know, if they're guilty, "Do 17 they have something on me" -- 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, well that canteen worker 19 took off right away. 20 MR. PEREA: Yes, he took off right away. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: No investigation after that? 22 MR. PEREA: As far as I know, nothing happened 352 1 after -- 2 MR. MCFARLAND: No prosecution or further 3 investigation by BCSO? 4 MR. PEREA: No, Sir. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Do you have anything 6 else? 7 MS. CHUNN: No. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: Okay. Well, I want to thank 9 you all very much for your testimony and your patience. 10 It has been a long day. 11 And I believe, Chief Torres, you have the last 12 word, if you want to join us. 13 (A brief recess was taken.) 14 MR. TORRES: Very good. Mr. Chairman, members 15 of the Panel, thank you for -- I believe I took most of 16 the opportunity at the beginning of the day to express 17 the good work that's being done at the Bernalillo 18 County Metropolitan Detention Center, and all the 19 positive and progressive initiatives that go on within 20 the facilities. 21 Running a $59 million operation that has 2,700 22 inmates on any given day of various classifications, 353 1 including murders, sexual predators, to those that are 2 in on a simple traffic violation, the challenges are 3 tremendous for staff and the county, as a whole. 4 If we were to sit here and suggest to anybody, 5 including this Panel, that there are no problems in an 6 operation that large, then I think that our credibility 7 would certain be questioned, and we should probably go 8 home, because we're lying. Or they don't need us, 9 because we don't need management in that type of 10 environment. 11 We have made changes internally recently, with 12 our internal affairs investigation. That was a product 13 of suggestions from our auditors, and from 14 collaborative discussions between our legal department, 15 the county manager's office, and the administration of 16 MDC. We believe those changes have been positive. 17 Nonetheless, we take the scrutiny that you 18 have provided today, particularly this afternoon, in 19 regards to investigations. And I can tell you that 20 there are some definitive strategies that I have 21 extracted from today. 22 I believe that the quality of any type of 354 1 sexual misconduct should be treated as a major 2 incident, for no other reason than it certainly is a 3 prelude to a much larger scale assault, if you will, 4 including interviews and follow-ups, and what not. 5 Encourage prosecution. This may be the 6 greatest challenge and the greatest opportunity for 7 improvement that we have. 8 Although, based on our training and our 9 education that we have already implemented, and the 10 changes that we have implemented, we have already seen 11 a great reduction in sexual assaults in our facilities. 12 Those don't happen by accident. They happen because 13 things are brought to light, attention is paid to them, 14 and you make strategic -- things don't change, unless 15 you change things. And we have done so. So, encourage 16 prosecution. 17 I commit to the Panel, Mr. Chairman, that I, 18 myself -- and I would encourage Mr. Dantis to join me 19 to have a visit with the district attorney's office, 20 and really change the paradigm, in terms of just 21 because someone is in jail doesn't mean they're not 22 entitled to the same rights as if they were in the 355 1 community. 2 Notification of -- to inmates of their rights 3 and ability. We already began these processes, but 4 there is no reason why we can't reinforce it. And, of 5 course, to make it known, almost a PR -- if I picked up 6 what you were suggesting, almost an internal PR 7 campaign that not only do we have a zero tolerance 8 policy, but we're going to chase it down until we just 9 know every nook and cranny of that particular 10 investigation. 11 And if there is anything still left out there, 12 we're going to find out what it is, and we're going to 13 pursue prosecution, if necessary. 14 So, those are all strategies that I have just 15 written down in a matter of a few minutes -- well, a 16 few hours -- this afternoon. 17 And as I stated before, we are very 18 transparent. We are very accountable. I hope that all 19 of my staff were very respectful in their responses to 20 you, Mr. Chairman and members of the Panel. And we 21 look to grow it -- in every opportunity. 22 I will say this, however. The "however" is 356 1 that the afternoon session was very tough. The -- when 2 we go through each investigation with a fine-tooth 3 comb, there is obviously room for growth, I don't care 4 who is conducting that investigation, and on what 5 level. 6 The "however" is I would just ask the Panel to 7 bear in mind the volume of reports and the volume of 8 good investigations that have occurred, and those 9 individuals that have been locked out, and the 10 statements that have been made. It's not always easy 11 for the administration to take a hard perspective with 12 staff, especially in a corrections environment and 13 public safety environment, where you're perceived as 14 being not supportive of your staff if they perceive you 15 as taking the words of inmates, and what not. 16 So, you really have to -- there is 17 two -- there is a huge shift, in that they are -- the 18 inmates must be perceived as customers. And part of 19 the service that we provide is a safe and secure 20 environment. 21 And, Ms. Chunn, having run facilities and been 22 in facilities -- and Mr. McFarland, having visited 357 1 several facilities -- and I don't know if you've had 2 the opportunity to run a facility -- but you know that 3 that perception is a difficult pill to swallow for 4 staff in public safety, in general, that, you know, 5 people that are charged with a crime or convicted of a 6 crime have any rights. Certainly, to swallow the pill 7 of treating them as customers is a very difficult one. 8 So, we are coming along. We believe -- we see 9 this as a challenge, I see this as a challenge. I wake 10 up every day and say, "What can we do today to better 11 serve our community?" And this is no different than 12 any other challenge. We will take it serious. 13 I hope that we have demonstrated that we are 14 serious about this, having prepared ourselves, and in 15 here today to -- and made changes already to facilitate 16 changes, and now have objective outcomes to measure 17 those successes with one assault for the year. 18 I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ms. Chunn, 19 for your patience and for your visit to our facilities. 20 And any time, you're always welcome. 21 MR. MCFARLAND: Thank you. I do have a couple 22 of follow-up questions for you, Mr. Torres. 358 1 Did you have some questions for Mr. Torres? 2 MS. CHUNN: I only have a closing statement. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: A closing statement. A few 4 things. The -- I want to make sure we get on the 5 record the extraordinary number of cameras you have. 6 How many cameras do you have at MDC? 7 MR. TORRES: I believe, at last count, there 8 were 311 cameras in our facilities. 9 MR. MCFARLAND: How many were there in August 10 of 2007, do you have any -- 11 MR. TORRES: It was 309. 12 MR. MCFARLAND: And how many of them 13 are -- can move, swivel, tilt, zoom? 14 MR. TORRES: Throwing caution to the wind, I 15 would guess half of them. Certainly all those in the 16 perimeters, all those in the pods. There are certainly 17 many fixed cameras: all those in the food service 18 units, those areas where we have to be able to move, 19 pan, tilt, zoom. 20 And it is important to know that the 21 technology also -- we have -- the county moved forward 22 and purchased a digital recording system to the tune of 359 1 $300,000, and have upgraded it for another $80,000, 2 where all 311 cameras are recorded 24-7, and digitally 3 captured for up to 5 months. So -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: So you archive them for five 5 months? 6 MR. TORRES: Five months, yes. 7 MR. MCFARLAND: That's great. 8 MR. TORRES: That memory is what is the big 9 ticket on those. 10 MR. MCFARLAND: And that protects, as we saw, 11 that ended an investigation. That protects your 12 people. 13 MR. TORRES: It very much so does. And I 14 want -- and without making excuses, many of 15 those -- just to give you a little more clarity, in 16 some of those instances where it seemed like maybe BCSO 17 was not pursuing, or us not completing. There is a lot 18 of background discussion that goes on over the phone, 19 where there is a suggestion -- "We have seen the video, 20 there is absolutely no way this may have happened," 21 that type of thing. 22 And, you know, there probably should have been 360 1 better protocol to complete the -- to follow it up, 2 document those discussions, and to close the case 3 properly -- 4 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, isn't it true that there 5 were a number of instances where the video was not the 6 issue? 7 MR. TORRES: Right. 8 MR. MCFARLAND: I mean, you had eye witnesses 9 that weren't interviewed, there were leads that weren't 10 pursued. 11 MR. TORRES: I absolutely agree. And I 12 believe Ms. Chunn hit to the heart of the matter 13 earlier, in suggesting that by farming out many of 14 these investigations, you lose the ownership of that. 15 And one of the principles of direct supervision is 16 ownership of operation. Thus, we have taken the 17 internal affairs function and brought it in-house. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Chief Torres, I want to affirm 19 you for the most important thing. I mean, half the 20 battle is your attitude. And you are so committed to 21 not just on paper, but in reality, making MDC an 22 entirely safe institution, where prison rape is not a 361 1 reality. 2 So, I just want to affirm you for your 3 leadership, your example. There -- the facility is 4 extremely impressive. I was really impressed with the 5 esprit de corps among your staff. They like you, you 6 like them, you know them. They like each other, they 7 seemed to like doing their work. You know, everybody 8 and their brother knows Mr. Dantis. You've got cameras 9 everywhere. 10 MR. TORRES: Yes, Sir. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: The electronic key access is 12 another great way to ensure that your staff doesn't get 13 accused of getting a key to go into somebody's closet, 14 where they weren't supposed to be. 15 You've got this electronic tracking deal, 16 where you know where your correctional officers are and 17 aren't. That's remarkable. You've got a lot of 18 programs. You've got a lot of third parties who are in 19 and out of there all the time that you -- you 20 really -- it would be very hard to think of somebody 21 who couldn't report something. 22 MR. TORRES: Right. 362 1 MR. MCFARLAND: You know, there are so many 2 people coming in and out of there. 3 I didn't see everything, but I -- you have an 4 incredibly impressive detox program. I really affirm 5 you for your pat down and strip search criteria, and 6 not doing the cross-gender stuff on strip searches. 7 There is just a lot to like about your facility. 8 And the -- for what it's worth -- this is just 9 my personal observation -- I jotted some things down 10 after the tour and before today. And the training 11 could be improved, and I think you're clear on that, 12 both of inmates and officers. The handbooks need to 13 get distributed. 14 The -- there was nothing in any of the 15 posters -- and they had just gone up recently, but 16 there didn't seem to be anything mentioned about 17 staff-on-inmate. And that, as we saw, is not just a 18 theoretical concern at that facility. And we just 19 recently talked to Ms. Worsham, saying that that was 20 going to be considered. 21 And then -- but you said at the outset, 22 overcrowding is the big issue. It limits your 363 1 classification options, and it puts a strain on your 2 programming. And idle people are people that are going 3 to get in trouble. 4 I'm real concerned about seg eight, and you 5 know, the 60 boats in the day room. And you've got the 6 felons together and your sex offenders celled together, 7 and you -- so-and-so, for driving with a suspended 8 license is in easy access. And that was the very -- it 9 was a seg unit just like that where the shenanigans 10 went on in the janitor's closet, you know, despite the 11 rotating camera. So, that overcrowding, I think -- I 12 just want to affirm you for seeing that, and the need 13 to reduce the average length of stay, as being key. 14 I would suggest that contraband -- I was not 15 searched. I should have been searched. I suggest that 16 is yet another way to make sure that you just have a 17 zero -- there are no big-wigs; everybody gets searched. 18 You know, I could have been carrying all kinds of 19 things in there. I appreciate your courtesy in that 20 regard, but it's just a suggestion. 21 Yes. So, and finally then, 22 today -- just -- there are a number of things that came 364 1 out, but sharing what is gleaned from the medical 2 screening with classification is just critical. And 3 just keep in mind, as I'm sure your legal counsel has 4 said -- 5 MR. TORRES: Right. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: -- if you've got information 7 in there that doesn't get used and doesn't get 8 communicated, it's worse than not having it at all. 9 And, more importantly, you have that information, and 10 it can save people from serious injury. So, enough 11 said on that. 12 I would really recommend that you strike in 13 the medical screening question number 10, where it 14 says, "Within the last 30 days have you been sexually 15 assaulted," get rid of the last 30 days. You want 16 your medical personnel to ask if they have ever been 17 sexually assaulted, because as every one of your 18 witnesses has indicated, that's part of the profile of 19 a victim, and possibly a predator. 20 Those 10-minute tests are great. I wish every 21 facility we've been to would do that sort of thing. 22 Handing out a three -- you know, a one-page tri-fold 365 1 would be a great idea. And make sure they all have 2 handbooks. 3 So, this is nothing that you haven't heard or 4 thought of, and your staff -- your captain said, you 5 know, control of population, communication, education 6 of inmates, that's a great place to start. 7 And I really want to affirm you, too, for your 8 idea about talking to BCSO and to the prosecuting 9 attorney, that this is not open season out there at 10 MDC, and that you're trying to send a message. 11 And then also, training in first -- training 12 your first responders, so they have -- so it's just 13 almost reflexive. They know instantly what to do, and 14 I don't have to prod them, I don't have to ask them, 15 "Well, what about this," and, "What about the crime 16 scene," and what -- just first responders and 17 investigations at every level, what you do and don't 18 do. You don't talk to an inmate, a rape victim, in the 19 hallway on the way to the infirmary, you know, stuff 20 like that. So -- 21 MS. CHUNN: Well, let me just say that to do 22 this work is hard, if you do it well. But if you excel 366 1 and distinguish yourself, it's even harder. And it 2 requires constant adjustment of what's before you. And 3 half of it you won't be able to predict. 4 I am taken by your intent to be the best 5 facility in the country. I think that you have the 6 talent, the vision to make it real. And I know, more 7 than anything else, that your receptivity to ways to 8 improve is even more remarkable. 9 What has impressed me so much is that you 10 haven't decided, "Well, we will go home, and nobody 11 needs to report anything, we're just going to look the 12 other way." That's not the way to get there. The way 13 you are going is the way to get there. And if you take 14 into account some of these suggestions, I know that you 15 are going to do some absolutely outstanding work that 16 will be recognized nationally. 17 And so, I would just say to you, keep on doing 18 what you're doing. You've got a can-do organization, 19 and you can make it work. 20 So, thanks so much for sharing, not only what 21 some of the problems are and some of the constraints 22 are, but remember that you're also informing the larger 367 1 national practice. And so there will be a lot of folks 2 who will benefit from some of the trials and 3 tribulations that you have had with this. And bear 4 that in mind, because it makes a difference. 5 MR. TORRES: Thank you. 6 MR. MCFARLAND: Mr. Dantis, did you want the 7 -- a couple of minutes? 8 MR. DANTIS: I was only up here in support of 9 the chief and the staff, and to again say how very, 10 very proud I am of the work that they're doing, and to 11 thank the Panel. 12 It was -- you did a great job vetting 13 the -- each and every one of the incidents, and it 14 really brings to light how important -- how very, very 15 important -- these issues are to all of us. 16 And only to say that, where I sit, I am going 17 to work to help the chief in making sure that maybe 18 even beyond having conversation with our sheriff, who 19 is within the county, and our district attorney, who we 20 have sizeable contracts with now, maybe we can go a bit 21 of a step further in making -- getting representatives 22 from the sheriff's department and the district 368 1 attorney's office, to actually sit in and become part 2 of the PREA committee. So that's where we're headed. 3 MR. MCFARLAND: That's great. 4 MS. CHUNN: Great. 5 MR. MCFARLAND: And you're in the unique 6 position, Chief Torres, that you don't answer to the 7 sheriff. You answer directly to the county, right? 8 MR. TORRES: That's -- Mr. Chairman, that's 9 exactly right. 10 MR. DANTIS: Unfortunately, he does. 11 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes. Well, and the guy in the 12 county that you answer to has his name on the street of 13 the facility, right? Where you live? 14 MR. TORRES: It's quite the reminder. 15 MR. MCFARLAND: Yes, I bet it is. 16 MR. TORRES: I'm trying to get the treatment 17 pond named after me some day. 18 MR. MCFARLAND: Well, on behalf of the Panel 19 -- and Ms. Ellis was called away -- all of us have day 20 jobs, so she had to return to Fairfax County for a 21 homicide matter. 22 So, we want to thank you for coming out here. 369 1 Thank you again for all the documents you produced. It 2 just gave me a hernia, carrying them up here this 3 morning. And we will stand adjourned. 4 MR. TORRES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 5 MR. DANTIS: Thank you. 6 (Whereupon, at 3:57 p.m., the hearing was 7 adjourned.) 8 9 * * * * * 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22